Planting my 75 G

[dogsare4losers]

Hey guys
I am preparing for the purchase of a 75 G aquarium (give or take a few gallons on what I can find) I have a topic in the general section about stocking it: http://www.fishforums.com/forum/gene...g-my-75-g.html
I need some advice on planting because I am pretty unfamiliar with the topic. I've done a small amount of research and I just read Justonemore20's article on it. I am going for a pretty heavily planted tank but not really sure what type of plants to get. Once I figure this out I would probably need help on lighting and substrate...I need enough plants & hiding places for the fish I would like. I am probably going to get some apistos and rams along with some other fish that require hiding. So what are some planting ideas? I don't think I could handle high lighting most likely too much work and too expensive but I think I could handle meduim lighting.

So I'm just looking for some help...
Thank you so much guys!

[ikermalli]

Hornwort,Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubais, Cryptocorynes, Lillies (Nymphaea), Valisneria, Saggiteria, Swords (Echinodorus species), Water Sprite, Banana Plant and Hornwort. All of these are low light plants I don't think they should be too hard to take care of but don't forget to make/buy a co2 system. There is a DIY somewhere on this site for it

[JustOneMore20]

DIY CO2 isn't effective on larger tanks.

You can have a pretty heavily planted tank without CO2 injection though.

If you want high light with alot of plant choices and you can dedicate enough time and money into the tank, try your hand at high tech, with pressurized co2.

The more light you have, the more the need for co2 goes up until there isn't enough in the tank without injecting it for the plants.

As far as lighting choices go, you have some options:

A 48" 130w power compact fixture would give you about 1.7 watts per gallon. It would not stretch the entire width of the tank, so you'd have some darker areas. Putting low light plants in those areas would work though. With this light, you'd have a pretty varied selection. Alot of stem plants are medium light and you'd have the choices of Java fern, Anubias, Crypts, and Java moss as well, which are common low light plants.

Another option is a 48" T5 HO (high output) fixture that has 4 54w bulbs in it. This would be a good amount of light. Ideally, you'd want co2 injection, but with enough plant mass in the tank and with alot of stem plants (Rotalas, Bacopa, Ludwigia to name a few) you shouldn't have a huge algae outbreak, since the plants would outcompete the algae for nutrients and light.

Another option is to go with 2 40w double fluorescent fixtures, for a total of 160 watts. This would give you about 2 watts per gallon and put you right in the middle of medium light. You wouldn't need to inject CO2 and you'd have a fair amount of plant choices (alot of stem plants, and the low light plants, as well as some grassy plants).

Here is a site that has pretty good info on plant and lighting needs: http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=1.

I actually like the plant finder here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...c/plantfinder/ better. Just look where it says lighting requirements and choose a category (high, medium, low) to see pics and names of those plants. It doesn't have everything though, but maybe between the 2 of them you'll get an idea of what you like.

[dogsare4losers]

Thanks a lot guys. Plants are WAY more complicated than I thought they'd be. But that's ok I like the challenge
One question though. You do put the plants in WHILE (so b4) you cycle right?

Also on the lighting options I think I'm going to go with the 2 40w double fluorescent fixtures. So any tips you could give me?

Thank you so much!

[ikermalli]

You are supposed to put them in after... I think. I think that the nitrates + nitrites + ammonia could kill your plants.

[dogsare4losers]

Oh...I thought plants soaked in nitrates?

[emc7]

Most plants take up nitrate and some (hornwort) even take up ammonia. I don't know how plants affect the cycle or vice-versa. I suspect you will adding plants for a long time to fill up a tank that big. I'd guess its ok to put some in, but you may not see your nitrate go up and will have to judge the cycle complete by the nitrite going to 0.

[JustOneMore20]

If you are going to do a fishless cycle, wait to put the plants in. The ammonia gets pretty high and you could invite algae into the tank that way. Alot of plants take in ammonia and nitrates.

If you are doing a fishy cycle, put in a bunch of plants in the beginning....especially the fast growing stem plants. This will help keep the ammonia level low while the tank cycles, which won't hurt your fish, as much.

With enough plants in the tank and gradually stocking the tank over time, you may not see a measurable cycle.

[dogsare4losers]

Well that would be nice!
Hmm...I've been exploring articles and I'm gradually finding out more information. I doubt I will do a fish less cycle if it's unnecessary!
Ok so I will post more when I know more!

Thanks again!

[dogsare4losers]

These might be some choices for me to start with maybe?
Any advice on them and ideas for other plants?
Front:
Pearlweed
Hemianthus micranthemoides

Cryptocoryne undulata
Cryptocoryne undulata

Dwarf Hairgrass
(Eleocharis acicularis)

Middle :
Black Sword plant
Echinodorus parviflorus

Rotala rotundifolia
Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val
Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis'

Willow leaf hygro
Hygrophila salicifolia

Wisteria
Hygrophila difformis

[JustOneMore20]

Dwarf Hairgrass and the HM are going to need the most light. With the hairgrass, you are going to want CO2, or it won't grow well.

If you don't want to get into CO2 injection, replace the hairgrass with something like Echinodorus tennellus or Dwarf Sagittaria....they are grassy plants, but need less light, and don't require co2. They aren't as thin as the hairgrass, but still look grassy.

HM might be ok without CO2. You are going to want atleast 2.5 watts per gallon though, which would be around 190 or so watts over the tank (obviously you can't have exactly 190).

With the others, you'll want around the same light. Some of them can take as low as about 2 watts per gallon, but I wouldn't go any lower than that. They will also be fine without CO2.

Some other stem plants like Bacopa caroliniana, Bacopa monneri, Pennywort, Anacharis, Ludwigia repens, and Hornwort would be good to have in the beginning for cycling, even if you don't keep them all.

[dogsare4losers]

I see, yeah I'll skip the hairgrass just to avoid all that if my other plants would be fine.

I will definiently look into the plants you listed though. Just a question...How many of the plants I list (another list will follow in a few minutes) should I buy? I really don't have much of a clue how big these plants are!

Thanks so much!

[JustOneMore20]

It really depends on where you get them. Most stores (online included) sell the stem plants in bunches. Usually, you get around 6-8 stems per bunch.

Keep in mind that they will eventually grow taller and you can trim and replant the stem plants to have a larger group.

With your list now, I'd probably buy 2 bunches of the Wisteria, Willow Leaf Hygro, and Rotala. The size of Sword plants can vary....usually they are a pretty good size though (maybe 4-5" leaves). These can be your focal points in the tank.....so you may want to get 2-3. For the Vallisneria, they may be sold by the plant. You'll probably want around 10 or so to start with.....maybe a few more depending on how you want to lay it out. If you want the Pearlweed to spread all across the foreground, you should get atleast 3 pots of it IMO to start with (it is sold in pots usually).

Crypts range from being pretty small (maybe 2-3" leaves) to pretty large (maybe 6-7" leaves), so it depends on how much space you want to cover with them. I believe Crypt undulata gets pretty big, so you might want to rethink that for the foreground. For a nice little bunch of them, I suggest about 4-5 plants, unless you want a bigger group.

If you plan on buying online, some good sites to order from are: http://www.aquariumplants.com, http://www.aquabotanic.com, http://www.aquariumgarden.com, and you may be able to find some from sellers on http://www.aquabid.com if you can't find them at the other places.

[dogsare4losers]

Oh yeah and what are some good substrates?
Also would you guys mind giving me a few links to good online stores that sell good planted tank supplies (lights, substrates, etc.)?

Thanks!

Sorry! I didn't see justonemore's post when I posted this!

[dogsare4losers]

Oh I have another question
Aquarium plants offers aquascaping (http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/127.htm) It lays out my tank and they send all of my plants to me I think. Would this be helpful?

And also do plant assortments provide you with enough plants or should I just buy them all seperate?

One more thing...Do you know how I should light my tank? Will I need to order the hood and all and bulbs seperate or what?

[dogsare4losers]

Ok I got a longer list:
Front:
Pearlweed
(Hemianthus micranthemoides)

Echinodorus tennellus

Dwarf Sagittaria

Cryptocoryne undulata

Middle :
Black Sword plant
(Echinodorus parviflorus)


Anacharis

Ludwigia repens

Hornwort
(Ceratophyllum demursum)

Creeping rush
(Juncus repens)

Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val
(Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis')

Giant Bacopa
(Bacopa caroliniana)


Aponogeton crispus

Willow leaf hygro
(Hygrophila salicifolia)

Wisteria
(Hygrophila difformis)

I like all of these but I'm not set on any. Does anyone know some good combinations of these to go together? Also how many total plants would I need to plant my tank? And finally I can get other decorations right? Like driftwood (I know I can get this) and rocks and such.

Thanks again

[JustOneMore20]

Originally Posted by dogsare4losers

Oh yeah and what are some good substrates?
Also would you guys mind giving me a few links to good online stores that sell good planted tank supplies (lights, substrates, etc.)?

Thanks!

Sorry! I didn't see justonemore's post when I posted this!

Substrate is another cost issue, especially with larger tanks.

You have your plant specific substrates like: Eco Complete, Flourite, and Onyx sand.

Then you have substrates that people use in planted tanks for various reasons. Soilmaster Select and Turface are both used on baseball fields to dry up water. They really soak up nutrients when used in planted tanks, but don't actually have any nutrients in them to begin with. They are small grained, but won't compact on plant roots like sand can....and they are cheap. Its about $15 or so for a 50lb bag of each. I don't think they are making Soilmaster Select anymore (or it could just be the charcoal color they aren't making), but it was/is sold at Lesco. For the Turface, you could probably find a link on that page to places that carry it.

Another substrate is Schultz Aquatic Plant soil, which I believe can be found at local hardware and pond stores. It's made for pond plants, but works in aquariums as well.

You could always use regular gravel. Whether you use regular gravel or the plant substrates, you will need to dose some nutrients in the water for the plants to thrive.

Oh I have another question
Aquarium plants offers aquascaping (http://www.aquariumplants.com/category_s/127.htm) It lays out my tank and they send all of my plants to me I think. Would this be helpful?

And also do plant assortments provide you with enough plants or should I just buy them all seperate?

One more thing...Do you know how I should light my tank? Will I need to order the hood and all and bulbs seperate or what

Buying plant assortments like they sell could be a good idea. I prefer to choose my own plants. As long as you let them know your lighting and tank size, it should be ok. I'd be afraid they'd send you something that was a difficult to grow plant or that really requires co2. I don't really know how many of each they'd send, so not sure if you'd get enough.

I answered your lighting thread.

Ok I got a longer list:
Front:
Pearlweed (Hemianthus micranthemoides), Echinodorus tennellus, Dwarf Sagittaria, Cryptocoryne undulata

Middle :
Black Sword plant (Echinodorus parviflorus), Anacharis, Ludwigia repens, Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demursum), Creeping rush (Juncus repens), Rotala rotundifolia

Back:
Corkscrew val (Vallisneria americana v. 'Biwaensis'), Giant Bacopa (Bacopa caroliniana), Aponogeton crispus, Willow leaf hygro (Hygrophila salicifolia), Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis)

I like all of these but I'm not set on any. Does anyone know some good combinations of these to go together? Also how many total plants would I need to plant my tank? And finally I can get other decorations right? Like driftwood (I know I can get this) and rocks and such.

Combinations really depends on what you like and what you want you tank to look like. Try to visualize the plants in the tank by the pictures you've seen of them and figure out what will look the best. All of those plants will work in the lighting you are wanting. I do suggest that if you get the Cryptocorynes, that you put them in the middle or back area instead of the front. They get pretty tall.

You will have alot of room in the tank from front to back if you get a 75g, so having a list that long is ok. I suggest getting a couple bunches each of the stem plants (Ludwigia, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, Hornwort) and maybe 2 Sword plants and 3-5 Crypts. For the Apon, you probably will want just 1 or 2 of them. For the Vals, getting about 8-10 plants should be fine, unless you are wanting to cover a large area with them.

E. tenellus and Dwarf Sag. look pretty much the same, so you might as well pick one and just get alot of that. I prefer E. tenellus, as the color is lighter and it tends to have shorter leaves than the Sag.

Plants really look their best IMO when you plant them in groups together.

[dogsare4losers]

Thanks JOM!

Man substrates can get expensive....if I used the stuff that takes up nutrients would it work to put ferts in b4 adding plants so they can suck up the nutrients?

Ok taking your advice, jom, would this list look good?
2-3 bunches of ludwiga, Wisteria, Bacopa, Rotala, and Hornwort
2 sword plants
4 crypts
2 apons
9 vals
I actually prefered E. tenellus too. So I think I will get that, how much would I get if I want it to cover a large area in the front of my tank?

So is this all the plants I would need or do I need more? Oh yeah and just so you know I got the creeping rush idea from your tank.

[JustOneMore20]

Yeah, they definitely get expensive on larger tanks.

It would work to put some in before, but it would work just as well to put the ferts in after you get plants. Either way works. Most people just wait until they get the plants.

Ohh, I left off another substrate. AquariumPlants.com has their own substrate now. Most people say its just like the Soilmaster Select that I mentioned in my other post. They claim it has nutrients in it though and people that have used it say its a good substrate. That might be another one to consider. It would have nutrients already in it. If shipping isn't alot, it might be worth buying.

[dogsare4losers]

I like it! But it says that it comes in a 5 gal bucket perfect for a 55 gal tank. (3" of substrate I think) So would 1 bucket cover me? I must say it is pretty cheap and a free bucket! And free shipping!
Oh and also (yes I have soooo many questions) should I buy my ferts (http://www.aquariumplants.com/Aquari...ION_p/fert.htm ) from them? And if so what types and I don't quite understand some of the dosing on them? help please...lol