Problems with lighting in planted tank

[kelbel2265]

I have a 20g tall tropical tank with many different kinds of plants. I have to keep replacing them because they keep dying. I have tried the Flora Pride.. but honestly I think I just do not have a strong lighting situation.. I currently have a 15w Aqua-glo tube.. I want to know how to create a better lighting situation. Can I buy something already made or do I need to do a little DIY work?

[goodie]

15w in 20gal tall isn't near enough light plus Its hard for the light (light usable for the plants)to make it all the way to the bottom. You could get a Power Compact Fluorescent system, they cost quite abit, but really put out the light. I have a 45 tall that is 24" high, I use one 96w PCF with a 50/50 bulb in back and a 25w flora sun in the front of the tank(+diy co2). When you turn one or the other off you can REALLY tell a difference. They make retro fit kits so you can use your original light fixture. It maybe hard to find one that will fit your tank, but I think that I've seen them before. Besides upgrading your light, besure to keep your glass top/hood super clean and your water levels up.
What kind of plants are you trying to grow?

[Damon]

A 20 high tank is easy to light. Its 24 inches long. Perfect for a pc fixture. They will range from $45.00 to 120.00 including shipping from various sites.
A 24 inch fixture will have 55, 65, 110, or 130 watts. you only need 55 or 65 (there is really no difference in the light output of the 2).

[goodie]

A 20 high tank is easy to light. Its 24 inches long.

The only 20 tall that I've seen had the same foot print as a 10gal. I guess it was a 20extra high. I assumed thats what it was(x-high with a 15w bulb).

[Lydia]

My 20 high has the same footprint as a 15 gallon. I have the same amount of light as kel does but I also have a very high watt lamp next to it that I turn on a lot. Maybe that is why I can grow a lot of plants?

Simpte: where can I find a pc fixture for $45? I can't seem to find them for cheaper than $75...Do you have a site you would recomend?

[AprilRain]

Keep an eye on Ebay. I picked up a 2X55 CF 24" fixture BRAND NEW for about $50 INCLUDING shipping. You can pick up used stuff even cheaper.

April

I wanted to add that putting that much light over such a small tank is NOT for beginners. Unless you want pea soup, you have to plant very heavily, add CO2, dose ferts religiously, and be prepared to prune weekly.

[Damon]

http://www.aquatraders.com

[MyraVan]

I have a 20 gallon, 24" long tank that I simply added another 15W bulb to, bringing it up to 30W or 1.5 WPG. This is not great, but I successfully grow crypts, sagittaria, and vallis. I also have a fairly new Echinodorus ozelot which is growing, although slowly. It will look amazing when a bit bigger.

If I were doing it over again, I would have added a 36W power compact instead of another 15W. That would bring me up to 51W or about 2.5WPG. I have another tank with about 2.4 WPG and the plants in the are doing amazingly well. (Of course having a substrate of soil + gravel helps as well.)

Of course, you could just not use your current 15W light, and just get the 55W power compact. That would be better for the plants, as it's longer and would reach the ends of the tank better.

However, in favor of the two-bulb system, I find that it's nice to have two different tubes on staggered timers. That way I can have at least some lights on for much more time (8:30am til 8:30pm) so I can see the fish for longer. Also I wonder if it's a bit easier on the fish: they don't get hit by all the light coming on at once, they get some of it, and the rest comes on later. It also goes off in two steps.

[garfieldnfish]

What plants are you using? Maybe go with different kinds. All my tanks are planted and I use low lighting, in some of the tanks I use the bulbs that came with the tank top and no CO2 injection, in a few I replaced bulbs with natural daylight lightbulbs, but more because I prefer the soft glow of those. But I have played around with many different kinds of plants and the ones that will do well under these conditions are most anubias, crypts, lucky bamboo, Japanese mossballs, some vals and some swords, java fern and moss, as well as Walmart bulbs lilies and aponts (those last two have to been replaced every so often, they only do marginally well, but considering the price, I don't mind regrowing those every few months). I cannot keep the following growing well cabomba, water sprite (unless I let it float), frill plants, banana plants, temple plants and a few more I can't remember the names off. Most of the plants petsmart offers, I have tried plus a few other mail order ones. I use Leafzone liquid fertilizer once a weeks.

[Lydia]

Hey Simpte (or Myravan): Would this light fixture work well for a 20 high?
http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp...WPROD&ProdID=8

Also would this be too much filtration for the same tank? And is that a good filter? If it is too much filtration but a good filter, I might get the smaller size of it.
http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp...PROD&ProdID=52

Thank you very much for the link, Simpte!

I didn't mean to steal your thread, kelbel...sorry about that.

[Damon]

Thats the fixture I use on my 20 high
The filter could be strong but its adjustable.
Note: I am not familiar with that brand of filter.

[Lydia]

Ok with a fixture like that would I have to use co2 and ferts and stuff like that? Would it be worth the money if I just have plain gravel and no co2? Or would it jsut cause algea?

[Damon]

DIY CO2 in the least. Power compacts are very bright. Gravel could work but the smaller the better (2-4mm)

[MyraVan]

That lighitng fixture is astonishing value for money! I can't believe how cheap it is. But if you use on its own, with plain gravel substrate, no ferts, and no CO2, I think you'd be looking at a big algae bloom.

I would seriously consider replacing your substrate with something more plant-friendly if you're going to get that light fixture. And as Simpte suggests, DIY CO2 or Flourish Excel.

As for the filter, well, quality matters. Some filters jam up easily, some are very fiddly to clean, etc. I would go with one that I know to be good. I have a Fluval 2plus on my 20 and it gets top marks in every department. I personally would go with one of those.

[Lydia]

At petland I saw a co2 thing with diffuser that was under $20 if I remember right. Do all of those work about the same or would I be risking getting low quality for that price? I don't remember the brand but next time I go there I will check that and post it here. I would put a plant-friendly substrate but Petland doesn't sell any and they are really expensive anyways if I remember right. My gravel is pretty small. Would sand be any better? I know it wouldn't be as good as something more expensive but would it be better than fine gravel?

Simpte: Could you post a picture or two of your hood if you have any? I don't understand how it would work on a tank. Wouldn't the tank be open at the top? It looks like it's propped up above the tank.

[Damon]

You get what you pay for. DIY Co2 is easier and cheaper.

[Lydia]

I don't understand how to do DIY though. Also doesn't it take a whole lot of careful moderating to make sure there isn't too much or too little co2? I would probably use it instead of a store bought one if it doesn't take a whole lot of watching and if I could find out how to make one.

[Damon]

Its almost impossible to add too much co2 with DIY. The key to adding Co2 is to keep it at a constant rate, whether it be a little or a lot. The store bought (unless you go pressurized) will be no more accurate than a good CO2 recipe and won't last as long. It will also cost more.

[goodie]

if I could find out how to make one.

Here you go.

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

[MyraVan]

Lydia wrote:

I would put a plant-friendly substrate but Petland doesn't sell any and they are really expensive anyways if I remember right. My gravel is pretty small. Would sand be any better? I know it wouldn't be as good as something more expensive but would it be better than fine gravel?

Sand would be better than gravel, I think, but you are putting a *serious* amount of light into that tank, and unless you have a good balance (amount of light balanced with CO2, ferts, and good substrate) you're much more likely to get a big algae bloom.

A planted substrate doesn't have to be expensive! I use soil + gravel. Admittedly, my soil isn't plain soil, I use a combination of cheap topsoil from the garden center and aquatic soil (stuff that is used by pond people for potting up lilies and such), but plenty of people have had good success with plain chaep topsoil. If you really don't feel comfortable putting soil in your tank, you can buy soil that's especially meant for planted tanks. This is laterite, which is basically a clay mud that you mix with your gravel. Here in David Doyle's information about using laterite:

"I am a big laterite fan. It is not used in inches but in ounces/gal. You mix laterite into the bottom one to one and a half inches of whatever substrate you are using (it is best used with smaller grained things). The instructions call for one ounce/gal. I tend to use a tad more. It sells for $7/20 oz or $12/50 for 55 oz at BigAls. The total depth of substrate should be a min 2.5 and a max of 4ish or a tad more, deeper can encourage anerobic pockets. The taller the tank and the plants therein, the deeper the gravel should be to hold them."

Your 20 gal tank would thus use 20oz which would cost $7.20, and it's easy to find this stuff mail order.

Alternatively, Simpte recommends turface:

"For larger tanks (or if you have the storage room) Turface (yes the same stuff they put on baseball fields) will run $8.00 for 50lbs of the stuff. Thats what I use in my 75 gallon. 200lbs of Turface was $34.00."

So don't use the excuse that planted tank substrates are expensive, and just stick with plain gravel or sand. Get something that can hold nutrients and pass them on to your plants effectively.