Substrate

azn_fishy55 · 10-05-2005, 11:49 PM

Here is my substrate plan for my new aquarium.1 in. of gravel on the bottom,next 1/2 in. of laterite,2 1/2 in. of gravel.I know,using flourite is better but that is very expensive so I am just going to go this way

MyraVan · 10-06-2005, 03:20 AM

I think this would be too thick of a substrate. Try to aim for between 2 and 3 inches. How about 1" laterite, 1 1/2" of gravel?

And I'm not sure that Flourite is much better for growing plants than my exceedingly cheap substrate, 1" soil + 1" gravel. Flourite has more iron, but I'm not sure that's essential. At least according to Diana Walstad's analysis (she goes through this in one of the chapters in her book, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) it isn't needed. But then, she's talking in the context of a natural aquarium with steady but not amazingly fast plant growth. With the very high rates of growth you get in a successful high-tech tank, perhaps the higher iron levels are needed.

**Damon** · 10-06-2005, 06:52 AM

Depends on your tank size........
For a 10 gallon tank (and these prices are estimates, not exacts), a 1 inch layer of laterite will cost $10.00. Gravel is cheap. A bag of flourite will run $22.00 and that will be more than enough alone.

For a 20 gallon tank you will need 2 boxes of laterite ($20.00) and th rest gravel. You could by a bag of flourite ($22.00) and top off with gravel or sand.

The bigger the tank, the more cost effective flourite will be vs laterite.

For larger tanks (or if you have the storage room) Turface (yes the same stuff they put on baseball fields) will run $8.00 for 50lbs of the stuff. Thats what I use in my 75 gallon. 200lbs of Turface was $34.00.

azn_fishy55 · 10-06-2005, 03:16 PM

Well,the tank size isn't definite yet.I am waiting to buy a used 40 gallon but if that is already bought,I will use a 30 gallon.

**Damon** · 10-06-2005, 03:40 PM

For that size, unless you're going with sand, laterite will not be cost effective.

DavidDoyle · 10-06-2005, 04:49 PM

I am a big laterite fan. It is not used in inches but in ounces/gal. You mix laterite into the bottom one to one and a half inches of whatever substrate you are using (it is best used with smaller grained things). The instructions call for one ounce/gal. I tend to use a tad more. It sells for $7/20 oz or $12/50 for 55 oz at BigAls. The total depth of substrate should be a min 2.5 and a max of 4ish or a tad more, deeper can encourage anerobic pockets. The taller the tank and the plants therein, the deeper the gravel should be to hold them.

azn_fishy55 · 10-07-2005, 12:07 AM

It is definite I will be using the 30 gallon now.So I will be using flourite,it is about 20.99 per a bag so how many bags will I need?

MyraVan · 10-07-2005, 03:10 AM

According to Simpte's calculations above ("For a 20 gallon tank you will need 2 boxes of laterite ($20.00) and th rest gravel. You could by a bag of flourite ($22.00) and top off with gravel or sand.") you would need two bags, so $44.

To save some money, you could use a combination of Flourite and sand, as described here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/sandsubstrate.html
Then you could probably get away with just one bag of Flourite.

DavidDoyle · 10-07-2005, 07:39 PM

The price of 55 ounces of laterite is $12.50 and you would not need to use it all in 30. Very few stores will sell you a bag of fluorite for $22.

I am sorry to say, but Myra your numbers as well as simpte's are incorrect regarding laterite. (a 20 gal is fine with $7 box of laterite)

As for how much fluorite or gravel one needs:

Quote:

To calculate the number of bags of Flourite you need, SeaChem told me to allow one 1 kg for every 62 cu. inches (a bag of Flourite is 7 kg). So you can use

Desired Volume of Substrate in cubic inches/ 434

The suggested depth for planted tanks is 3 to 5 inches.
Example: our tank has a base of 72 x 18" and we wanted a depth of about 5 inches:

(72 x 18 x 5) / 434 =14.9 or 15 bags (231 lbs)

For calculating gravel, George Booth suggests 19 cubic inches per pound.
For our tank that would be:
(72 x 18 x 5) / 19 = 341 lbs.

from http://www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium/flourite.htm

A 30 gal is 36x12xdepth of gravel/434. For 3 inches its 2.98 or 3 bags of fluorite.

**Damon** · 10-08-2005, 10:45 AM

Yes it will take 3 bags of Flourite (45 lbs). A 30 gallon is 36 inches not 30. I do that all the time. A Flourite here is $21.99 a bag. Eco complete is $29.99.
Laterite is $9.99. These are local prices where there is very little competition.

azn_fishy55 · 10-08-2005, 12:44 PM

Well, the pet shop I am buying from sells the flourite for 19.99 per a bag,and I can discounts there too.So how many bags of flourite will I need to get a 3" layer?Can I mix gravel with fourite?

**Damon** · 10-08-2005, 11:02 PM

Yes you can mix gravel with flourite. Try to keep a small grain size (2-4mm). It would take 3 bags of flourite.

azn_fishy55 · 10-09-2005, 01:07 AM

So could I mix one bag of flourite and the rest is gravel?

**Damon** · 10-09-2005, 02:08 PM

If you want to.

azn_fishy55 · 10-09-2005, 05:39 PM

ok thanks you guys ^_^

azn_fishy55 · 10-16-2005, 10:57 PM

Well,I didn't end up buying laterite or flourite.Instead I bought Shult's Aquatic Soil(which was very much cheaper).So,I intend to put 1 or 1.5 inches of aquatic soil and cover with an inch or half an inch of sand.Is this a good idea?

MyraVan · 10-17-2005, 03:49 AM

I expect this will work. Shultz's Aquatic Soil is pretty much a poor man's version of Flourite, so I expect that SAS covered with sand will work as well as Flourite covered by sand, as described in the link I posted before.

**Damon** · 10-17-2005, 06:22 AM

SAPS is a good substrate but its a little light. It might float a bit. Its the same thing as Turface.

azn_fishy55 · 10-17-2005, 10:19 PM

Saps???wat does dis mean?

MyraVan · 10-18-2005, 03:18 AM

SAPS = Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil, its proper name.

I think SAPS is badly named: it isn't soil at all, since it's kiln fired it's more like a gravel.

10-05-2005, 11:49 PM	#1
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	Substrate Here is my substrate plan for my new aquarium.1 in. of gravel on the bottom,next 1/2 in. of laterite,2 1/2 in. of gravel.I know,using flourite is better but that is very expensive so I am just going to go this way

10-06-2005, 06:52 AM	#3
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	Depends on your tank size........ For a 10 gallon tank (and these prices are estimates, not exacts), a 1 inch layer of laterite will cost $10.00. Gravel is cheap. A bag of flourite will run $22.00 and that will be more than enough alone. For a 20 gallon tank you will need 2 boxes of laterite ($20.00) and th rest gravel. You could by a bag of flourite ($22.00) and top off with gravel or sand. The bigger the tank, the more cost effective flourite will be vs laterite. For larger tanks (or if you have the storage room) Turface (yes the same stuff they put on baseball fields) will run $8.00 for 50lbs of the stuff. Thats what I use in my 75 gallon. 200lbs of Turface was $34.00. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-06-2005, 03:16 PM	#4
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	Well,the tank size isn't definite yet.I am waiting to buy a used 40 gallon but if that is already bought,I will use a 30 gallon. Last edited by azn_fishy55; 10-06-2005 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Incorrect Tank Gallons

10-06-2005, 03:40 PM	#5
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	For that size, unless you're going with sand, laterite will not be cost effective. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-08-2005, 10:45 AM	#10
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	Yes it will take 3 bags of Flourite (45 lbs). A 30 gallon is 36 inches not 30. I do that all the time. A Flourite here is $21.99 a bag. Eco complete is $29.99. Laterite is $9.99. These are local prices where there is very little competition. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

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10-06-2005, 03:20 AM	#2
MyraVan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 864	I think this would be too thick of a substrate. Try to aim for between 2 and 3 inches. How about 1" laterite, 1 1/2" of gravel? And I'm not sure that Flourite is much better for growing plants than my exceedingly cheap substrate, 1" soil + 1" gravel. Flourite has more iron, but I'm not sure that's essential. At least according to Diana Walstad's analysis (she goes through this in one of the chapters in her book, Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) it isn't needed. But then, she's talking in the context of a natural aquarium with steady but not amazingly fast plant growth. With the very high rates of growth you get in a successful high-tech tank, perhaps the higher iron levels are needed.

10-06-2005, 04:49 PM	#6
DavidDoyle Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Age: 89 Posts: 497	I am a big laterite fan. It is not used in inches but in ounces/gal. You mix laterite into the bottom one to one and a half inches of whatever substrate you are using (it is best used with smaller grained things). The instructions call for one ounce/gal. I tend to use a tad more. It sells for $7/20 oz or $12/50 for 55 oz at BigAls. The total depth of substrate should be a min 2.5 and a max of 4ish or a tad more, deeper can encourage anerobic pockets. The taller the tank and the plants therein, the deeper the gravel should be to hold them.

10-07-2005, 12:07 AM	#7
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	It is definite I will be using the 30 gallon now.So I will be using flourite,it is about 20.99 per a bag so how many bags will I need?

10-07-2005, 03:10 AM	#8
MyraVan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 864	According to Simpte's calculations above ("For a 20 gallon tank you will need 2 boxes of laterite ($20.00) and th rest gravel. You could by a bag of flourite ($22.00) and top off with gravel or sand.") you would need two bags, so $44. To save some money, you could use a combination of Flourite and sand, as described here: http://www.plantedtank.net/sandsubstrate.html Then you could probably get away with just one bag of Flourite.

10-08-2005, 12:44 PM	#11
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	Well, the pet shop I am buying from sells the flourite for 19.99 per a bag,and I can discounts there too.So how many bags of flourite will I need to get a 3" layer?Can I mix gravel with fourite? Last edited by azn_fishy55; 10-08-2005 at 12:53 PM. Reason: adding info

10-08-2005, 11:02 PM	#12
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	Yes you can mix gravel with flourite. Try to keep a small grain size (2-4mm). It would take 3 bags of flourite. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-09-2005, 01:07 AM	#13
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	So could I mix one bag of flourite and the rest is gravel?

10-09-2005, 02:08 PM	#14
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	If you want to. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-09-2005, 05:39 PM	#15
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	ok thanks you guys ^_^

10-16-2005, 10:57 PM	#16
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	Well,I didn't end up buying laterite or flourite.Instead I bought Shult's Aquatic Soil(which was very much cheaper).So,I intend to put 1 or 1.5 inches of aquatic soil and cover with an inch or half an inch of sand.Is this a good idea?

10-17-2005, 03:49 AM	#17
MyraVan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 864	I expect this will work. Shultz's Aquatic Soil is pretty much a poor man's version of Flourite, so I expect that SAS covered with sand will work as well as Flourite covered by sand, as described in the link I posted before.

10-17-2005, 06:22 AM	#18
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	SAPS is a good substrate but its a little light. It might float a bit. Its the same thing as Turface. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-17-2005, 10:19 PM	#19
azn_fishy55 Fishy Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Jose,CA Age: 17 Posts: 25	Saps???wat does dis mean?

10-18-2005, 03:18 AM	#20
MyraVan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 864	SAPS = Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil, its proper name. I think SAPS is badly named: it isn't soil at all, since it's kiln fired it's more like a gravel.

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