ammonia during cycling

[manda]

if i keep doing a water change every time my ammonia is above .25 will my tank ever get cycled?
am i changing too much?
if so, then how high does the ammonia need to be before i can do a water change. i am cycling WITH fish. they are white clouds, and i really dont want to kill them.

thanks for all the help

[mousey]

yes it will cycle eventually.
Do not clean the gravel thruout the cycle however. Also you can use some PRIME or Ammo lock to help you thru the process and keep the fish safe.
I don't know all the numbers but on the ammo lock it says to add it every other day and do a water change.I have just done this with a few tanks that had a bio crash. I did a lot of water changes but everyone seems to be fine.
Just keep at it. Where are your nitrites?

[Puffer Pita]

I wouldn't recommend Ammo Lock. Prime, however, is good. It will detoxify the ammonia and nitrites without removing them so the will still be available for the cycling process.

[mousey]

Ammo lock does not remove the ammonia. It turns it into a non toxic form so the ammonia is still available to the bacteria. I have discussed this at length with the manufacturer and have used it for the last 4 years for my regular water changes as well as during fishless and fishy cycling. I have also used Prime with good success especially thru the nitrite stage of the cycling process. perhaps water hardness etc has a bearing on how the Ammo lock works, but as I say i have used it very succesfully.
Our water supply company keeps having "failures" with adding chloramine to the water supply and they add too much.It is added by computer into the water storage towers and unfortunately I live near the tower that keeps having the problem!
I generally use a bit more Ammo lock for water conditioning than the manufacturer recommends as it is able to neutralize 5ppm of chloramine. The residual in our water supply is 2 ppm and occasionally with the inaccuracy of the water company it has been over 3 ppm. After using regular conditioners I have had ammonia spikes after water changes and after some scary times i just switched to Ammo lock. Prime does not claim to neutralize any more than 3ppm. Any way the point is that either way will keep the fish safe thru the ammonia stage and using a little salt in the water plus water changes would help the fish thru the nitrite stage.

[Puffer Pita]

I've just known several people who used it and had problems. Haven't heard any with Prime.

[mousey]

It would be interesting to know what probs they have had! I am always open to new info. I bet it is something to do with water hardness and ph as a cause.
I actually tried to use a calculator on Practical Fishkeeping site to see how much salt I would have to add to the cycling tank to make it safe for the nitrite part. I was surprised that it told me given my water temp, nitrite level, hardness and ph, my water naturally had enough sodium in it so I didn't have to add any more.
Our town water does not have much sodium in it according to the water people so i went ahead with the Prime. Unfortunately i don't have a chemistry background and no-one I know could explain those results to me.
It would be nice to know if PFK was right.

[manda]

i havent tested nitrites since this is just week one of cycling.
perhaps i need to?
i have cycled a tank before, but i need a refreshment course :P

[mousey]

start testing nitrites any time now.day 8 -10 they usually start up.

[manda]

thanks.
its day 5 i think