help with fish choice

[Ackerman651]

hi, i set up a new 10 gallon about 2 weeks ago, with plastic plants. i started with a platy and a golden chinese algae eater. i then purchased another platy, and just today i bought a headlight tail light tetra. i went home and did some research, and realized that the guy that sold me the tetra lied. he said that it was a community fish, and from what i heard it is semi agressive. i was also planning on buying a bamboo shrimp, but i dont want my tetra to attack it, or attack any other fish. i also learned that tetras are schooling fish, which he told me they werent. so now i must decide what to do with the tetra, and how to handle all my other fish. any suggestions?

[Puffer Pita]

Platies and tetras should be in groups of at least 6. Headlight tetras aren't semi-aggressive IME. Chinese algae eaters are very aggressive when they get older and way too big for a 10g tank. I'd take the tetra and chinese algae eater and get several more platies instead.

[Zoe]

Hi, welcome to the site.

A 10 gallon is pretty small, so you'll be fairly limited in your choices. What you have right now, most of it is not suitable for a 10gallon. Platys will get to 3-4" long and need 20gallons+ as adults. Your CAE will get to 6" long, and also would need a bigger tank.
I've never heard of headlight tailight tetras being agressive, but you need to keep several. They are schooling fish, and by themselves they are shy and unhappy.
You could look into upgrading your tank, but I think what you should do now is return the platys and the CAE to your petstore, and get some more appropriate fish for your 10gallon.

You could get some more tetras, so you have 6-7 of them. And then you could get a centrepiece fish - a dwarf gourami, or a male betta, for example.
You could also get a group of 6 small corydoras.

And you could definitely get some bamboo shrimps if you wanted, and/or ghost shrimp.

Above all, don't rely exclusively on what petstores tell you. Most of the time they are completely or partly wrong. If you see a fish you life at your LFS, I suggest you write it down, come home and research it before putting it in your tank.

Good luck!

Oh, did you cycle your tank? If not, you should read up on the nitrogen cycle.

[Puffer Pita]

I have to disagree about the platies. Never seen one over 3" long, most only get to about 2.5" IME. 6-7 tetras plus a centerpiece fish would be too much for a 10g IMO.

[Zoe]

My LFS has some huge platies (4 inches long, and quite tall), but they may be an exception to the rule. Other than those, I haven't seen any bigger than a couple inches.

[Gourami Swami]

I have seen 3 inch platties at my LfS that I wouldnt put in a 10, but im no community expert.

You should have no problem with the tetras, but you must take back the chinese algea eater, in addition to it getting too big, they become very agressive.

[Ackerman651]

thanks for all the feedback. about the platies, if they really will get that big then after theyve grown i have a friend with a huge tank i could give them too, would that be okay? and the algae eater would probably be the same, because i heard it takes them a long long time to grow, unless im wrong. ive only noticed a little agression with the algae eater towards one of the platies, and im not sure if it has anything to do with this but one platy i have is the exact same color as my algae eater. and with the tetra, ive heard many things about grouping. some people told me theres a minimum of two, others ive heard at least five. im not experienced at all, so if any of this sounds wrong then please let me know. and im not quite sure what you meant about the nitrogen cycle, so if you could maybe elaborate. thanks!

[Ackerman651]

ive seen a few other species of algae eaters-are there any maybe smaller and less agressive species?

[Puffer Pita]

For a 10g tank, you're pretty limited. Otos, pitbull plecos, and rubberlip plecos are pretty much it as far as fish go. You could try some Amano and/or cherry red shrimp, they are good algae eaters.

After only 2 weeks, you really shouldn't have much of an algae problem yet so you might want to hold off getting any algae eater until/unless some shows up, and then get something that will be able to manage that particular type.

[Puffer Pita]

Color has nothing to do with it, Chinese algae eaters are normally agressive and get even more so, to the point of killing tankmates, as they get older and grow up (which contrary to what you've heard happens rather quickly).

[Osiris]

Could guppies go in there as dither fish? or Danios?

[pokagon55]

Rasbora's are very nice fish and hardy. Serpae's are also nice fish as well as the guppy and the platy. It is not a golden rule that you have to keep a "special" number of fish at once. If they are schooling then three at the least.

You stated that you have done your research on the fish but what about cycling your tank? have you done the research on that? It would be advisable to do this if it hasen't already been done. Look up the Nitrgen Cycle. This must be done in order to keep happy, healthy fish.

[pokagon55]

[quote=Ackerman651]thanks for all the feedback. about the platies, if they really will get that big then after theyve grown i have a friend with a huge tank i could give them too, would that be okay? and the algae eater would probably be the same, because i heard it takes them a long long time to grow, unless im wrong. ive only noticed a little agression with the algae eater towards one of the platies, and im not sure if it has anything to do with this but one platy i have is the exact same color as my algae eater. and with the tetra, ive heard many things about grouping. some people told me theres a minimum of two, others ive heard at least five. im not experienced at all, so if any of this sounds wrong then please let me know. and im not quite sure what you meant about the nitrogen cycle, so if you could maybe elaborate. thanks![/QUOTE

Yes, the algea eater will become more aggressive as time wears on, I found this out first hand so it would be a good idea if you took this fish back but as for the rest they don't have to be in any special number as you will quickly find out. There are no golden rules on fish keeping, just the basic rules and the rest is just trial and error for the most part. Schooling fish at the least should be three or more but there again there is not a special number. Try to do all the research that you can and shift through all the babble that you come across and if you think something is not right then look it up or read a book a the libary, that way you will know for sure as you will get a lot of people that give only their advise....and most will be wrong.


Here is a web site on the Nitrgen Cycle
http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html

[judya]

I didn't think platies got that big. I know swordtails and sailfin mollies do, but platies?

As far as cycling, the critical thing is to stock your tank VERY slowly - a couple of fish now, a couple of fish in a few weeks. There are little bacteria in the water that convert fish wastes (ammonia - harmful to fish) to nitrite (harmful to fish) to nitrate (not very harmful to fish). This will happen naturally in your tank, but does take some time for the bacteria to grow and multiply enough to handle the fish waste. Everytime you add more fish, (or too much food) the bacteria will multiply to handle it, but again it does take some time. When people say a tank is "cycled" they mean the tank has enough bacteria to handle that amount of fish. However cycling is a process, and everytime fish are added, it will have to grow a few more bacteria.

To remove the nitrate (the end product of the cycling process) it is recommended that you do some water changing. This pulls out the dirty water, and adds fresh water. A suggested amount is 10-20 % every week or two. However, more is better. Just make sure the new water is the same temperature as the tank water, and that you treat it for chlorine/chloramine before adding. You can use a siphon or gravel vacuum for this which pulls the gunky stuff out of the gravel as well as changing the water.

Make sure you have a bucket that you only use for fish. Nothing that would have floor cleaner or anything else in it.

The only test kit I recommend is a pH test kit. If you check the tank every week or two, you will see if it is holding steady. If it starts getting more acid than before, you probably need to do a water change.

A nice fish for a 10 is a corydoras catfish or two (they like to hang out together). They are cute, non-aggressive, and will pick up the food that falls to the bottom (No, they don't eat fish wastes, or algae).

Also when you buy fish from the store, 1) make sure nothing in the store tank has little white spots on it (ick - looks like grains of salt) and if their tanks are on a central system, don't buy any fish that day. 2) float the bag of fish in your tank for awhile to get the temperature the same 3) open the bag and add some tank water to the bag - a little at a time, so the fish gets used to your tank water gradually. That is one of the key things - change should be gradual (water changes, moving fish from the store to your tank, etc.)- otherwise the fish will suffer and maybe die.

[Phantom_Cichlid]

a clown leco would do ok in a 10 gallon

[JustOneMore20]

I agree with advice given above...take the platies back to the LFS and get 5 more tetras. Then you could add a male betta or a dwarf gourami and call it stocked. If the tank is new, you shouldn't really need an algae eater. Chinese Algae eaters get more aggressive with age. I had one that was about 4 inches and sucked on to 2 zebra danios which killed them. They like to eat the slime coat off other fish. Definitely take that guy back...he will eventually cause problems. They also get huge, about 8 inches...I've heard of them getting bigger than that, but have never seen it in person. I've personally seen a 6-7 inch one and it looked huge, so I can just imagine how a bigger would be look.

So you are looking at:
6 Head and Tailights
1 male betta or dwarf gourami

That is a good stocking for a 10g...its not too much, but 10g tanks are small.

Also, head and tailights are not aggressive at all. I have 8 in my 55g that have been with me for over a year (first fish in the tank) and they are kept with angels, other tetras, bolivian ram...and others and I have not seen any aggression. They do like to chase after each other, but hey, what tetras dont do that.

Enjoy the tank!

Articles on the Nitrogen Cycle:
http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Cycle.htm
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cycling.php

[Zoe]

Just a note, I saw two ENORMOUS platties today! They were so big I didn't know they were platies at first. They were at least 4.5" long and 2.5" high. I know that's normal, and most platies probably end up at around 2", but WOW. I wish I had had my camera!

[Ackerman651]

alright, as far as the cycling goes, i wasnt quite sure what you meant at first, but i have made a couple water changes with a gravel vaccum tube and with a new bucket, and each time i added fish or changed water i added some chlorine and chloramine remover called start right. ive been feeding my algae eater small portions of algae wafers every week or so. from what i hear i need to take it back, so ill probably do that soon, but i really would like an algae eater if possible, are there any other species that dont get as big or are less agressive? and as far as the tetras, i understand that you typically dont mix different tetras for schools as they are different species, but would there be any other types of tetras that are maybe in the red eye catageory that would be okay to school with the headlight tail light, or are they pretty much there own species. with the platies im not quite sure yet whether or not im going to keep them for a while, would it be okay to give them away once they get too big for the tank, or should i remove them right now. and what would be an ideal shrimp for a 10 gallon. i was looking at a bamboo shrimp, but i dont know if there are any other species that would be better. i also heard they molt, and after they do would i need to take the skin out or would they eat it themselves? thanks again.

[Puffer Pita]

Bamboo shrimp will get much too large IMO.

[JustOneMore20]

i really would like an algae eater if possible, are there any other species that dont get as big or are less agressive?

Yes, otocinclus are algae eaters that are not aggressive and only get about 1.5 inches. They are very sensitive to water quality though, so you'd need to have the tank cycled. Also, you need visible algae growth or they may not survive. I really don't consider them a beginner fish.

Do you have a test kit? One that has tests for ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte is what you need. If so, do you test your water? That is how you keep track of the cycle. I would not add any more fish until the cycle is finished.

and as far as the tetras, i understand that you typically dont mix different tetras for schools as they are different species, but would there be any other types of tetras that are maybe in the red eye catageory that would be okay to school with the headlight tail light, or are they pretty much there own species

I would get the same kind of tetra. They are schoolers, meaning they like groups...and in a 10 gallon you really only have room for 1 school of 6. Plus, you have other fish in the tank, the platies, which could reach 2-3 inches. If you want other types of tetras, I'm afraid you'll need a bigger tank. If you don't like the Head and Tailights...take it back and get 6 tetras you do like (of the same kind).

would it be okay to give them away once they get too big for the tank, or should i remove them right now

I'm not sure exactly how big Platies get. I guess there are different kinds (I'm not a livebearer person), but I've only heard 2-3 inches. IMO you could keep the 2 that you have with a school of 6 tetras and be alright. Do you know if they are male or female? If you have one of each, you could have problems with fry. I'm sure the parents will eat some of them, but if any survive, the tank will quickly become overstocked. You could keep 2 females or 2 males and the school of tetras and then later on get a couple otocinclus, once you know for sure that the tank is cycled.

what would be an ideal shrimp for a 10 gallon.

Ghost shrimp, Red Cherry Shrimp, Amano shrimp, or Red Crystal shrimp would work...the latter 3 may be harder to find though. I would try ghost shrimp. Some fish like to eat shrimp, and I'm not sure if Platies are one of those fish. Ghost shrimp are pretty cheap and easy to find, so if the platies happened to eat them, it wouldn't be too devastating for you. If you buy more expensive shrimp, you sure don't want them to end up as food.

i also heard they molt, and after they do would i need to take the skin out or would they eat it themselves?

From what I understand about shrimp, they eat their shells, so you shouldn't remove them.