Advice needed. Septicemia? Too small tank?

[SueM]

Sounds to me like a possible parisite, you can try a 30 min salt dip, use 1 tablespoon of salt (aquarium salt from the LFS) per gallon in a small container. same temp as the tank, watch him very closely, if he starts looking stressed or lays on the bottom, remove him back to the tank immediately
Here's a site that may give you names & meds to help with research........ http://www.klsnet.com/files/fishchart.htm

[TheOldSalt]

It looks more like secondary fungus in the pics to me, the nasty deep-flesh kind. It might clear up on it's own as a result of the other treatment, but if not it can be treated separately. The treatment Sue suggested would be a good place to start.

I think you'll like that store Sue mentioned. It's something of a legend, and I guess you'll soon see why.

[Jessiebug829]

Well when I looked at Marty this morning he now has fluffy whiteness (fungus I assume) all over his tail end, and the white thing has gotten fluffier too. So I did another dose of the stuff I used before since it is a fungus treatment and it's not harming the other two. If it doesn't seem to have an effect on him by tomorrow then I'll take himout and do the salt thing and change some of the water to get some of the medicine out of it to benefit the other two. It worked well on the fin rot and the redness so hopefully it will do the same for this.

Is it normal (in terms of fish getting sick) for them to just get sick like this? I know that something in their environment got messed up when I cleaned their tank but if nothing bad was introduced to the tank then I suppose I don't understand how they got sick. Is it just whatever badness is in all of the poop they produce that they got more susceptible to it with the stress of the tank cleaning?

[Gourami Swami]

Overreacting, joe? Its not like im yelling at him. And im DEFINATELY not "ridiculing" him. I am trying to help. And about "letting it go"... its not like the fish will be able to live out their life in the tank. I was telling him to rehome them because i did not realize how sick they were. Now that i have seen pictures i do. But even after the fish have been made healthy, Sue's suggestion of petco's adoption service would be a good way to go.
I agree with TOS... looks like some pretty nasty fungus. A salt dip might do the trick.
And no jessie, its not normal for them to randomly get sick. Have you tested with a liquid kit? that will give us some insight as to the problem. BTW, when yyour not completely sure as to what th eproblem is its not advised to medicate.

[Jessiebug829]

Gourami, I am a girl. Please stop referring to me as a male.

I told you that all levels are in the safe zone. Giving you a specific number that is one digit off of what you think is ideal will only help you harass me more. Since I have no intention of giving you more ammunition I am not giving you any numbers.

I am giving Marty a salt bath. I medicated them for what they have. Do you take all of your fish to a fish vet? No, you do your research and figure out what is wrong. Then you treat for what you conclude is the issue. I did. It worked. Obviously he is having other issues. So I am now treating for those.

I don't appreciate being talked to as a newbie by you because you apparently think there is something inherently wrong with being uneducated regardless of any efforts to become educated. You weren't born educated. You did the work and got to where you are now. I am currently trying to take advantage of the knowledge of others (which is how you got educated unless you relied solely on fish experiments and trial and error to educate yourself) and thus do the same work to educate myself that you all did. Either you are going to help me or you are not. Here's a hint, berating me and telling me repeatedly what is wrong with my behavior (instead of helping me fix each particular problem in a logical order so I can ultimately solve the problem of giving them the best home; and, no, that does not start with me just handing them over to a professional who is apparently inadequate while they're still sick and washing my hands of them) is not helping me. So please stop.

If you haven't got anything constructive to add to this thread then please stop adding things.

[Baby_Baby]

Jessie:
I'm in agreement with Sue's observation and statement that your relentless searching and determination is admirable.

For Everyone Else Involved In This Thread:

[Gourami Swami]

Originally Posted by Jessiebug829

Gourami, I am a girl. Please stop referring to me as a male.

I told you that all levels are in the safe zone. Giving you a specific number that is one digit off of what you think is ideal will only help you harass me more. Since I have no intention of giving you more ammunition I am not giving you any numbers.

I am giving Marty a salt bath. I medicated them for what they have. Do you take all of your fish to a fish vet? No, you do your research and figure out what is wrong. Then you treat for what you conclude is the issue. I did. It worked. Obviously he is having other issues. So I am now treating for those.

I don't appreciate being talked to as a newbie by you because you apparently think there is something inherently wrong with being uneducated regardless of any efforts to become educated. You weren't born educated. You did the work and got to where you are now. I am currently trying to take advantage of the knowledge of others (which is how you got educated unless you relied solely on fish experiments and trial and error to educate yourself) and thus do the same work to educate myself that you all did. Either you are going to help me or you are not. Here's a hint, berating me and telling me repeatedly what is wrong with my behavior (instead of helping me fix each particular problem in a logical order so I can ultimately solve the problem of giving them the best home; and, no, that does not start with me just handing them over to a professional who is apparently inadequate while they're still sick and washing my hands of them) is not helping me. So please stop.

If you haven't got anything constructive to add to this thread then please stop adding things.

...Wow.

First, The "safe zone" information doesnt help the situation at all. and being one point off from what not only I, but anyone who knows about the nitrogen cycle and ammonia poisoning, think is wrong, Is still bad. I realize you were misinformed at the lfs and thus havent performed a nitrogen cycle, but the exact points really WOULD help, because I think the sickness of these fish is being helped along by bad water conditions. Ammunition? where here have i tried to shoot you down? I havent.

And about the next thing, TOS and many others will tell you the same thing i did about not medicating until you have a confirmed diagnosis. Giving fish medication for an illness they dont have can be harmful. (PS- not to be rude, but i just took a sick severum of mine to a fish vet two days ago.)

There is nothign incoherently wrong with being uneducated, and i never said or even implied that there was. You are a newbie, and there is nothing wrong with that at all! Everybody was!

I just posted today that i did not realize how bad their illness was and that was why I suggested giving them up. Then i proceeded to suggest a treatment, and even answer a question nobody else had in a calm manner. I have in NO WAY berated you! You doing things like calling me out and using "you" in italics is being just as "cruel" as you say I have been! I have done nothing but try to help you in this thread, if you cant see that i dont know what else to say.

[Gourami Swami]

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

I find it hard to believe that in the Buffalo area, there is no fish store that will take a few goldfish off your hands. Try other stores. I pretty much guaruntee someone will take them off your hands for you.
Also, you use the term "too small" in quotations, and because of your dog in the apartment speech, im getting the feeling that people elsewhere have flamed you for having too little of a tank without telling you WHY it is bad.
Fish grow. Most fancy goldfish will reach a length of 8". Some will grow up to a foot even, and this includes the "dime a dozen' comets many people buy. When fish grow, their body secretes a hormone that stunts their growth. In the wild that is fine, but in a small tank, larger fish (in relation to the tank) will secrete so much of this hormone that it is very very hard to keep up with, and unless you plan on doing 50+% water changes every day, the chemicals will play a part in the development of the fish. The fishes growth will be stunted, but when it is, its body will stop growing, but its internal organs will not. Eventually, this will cause a slow death.
Hopefully now you understand why this is different from a dog in an apartment. Its not just a space issue, its an issue of the animal's health. I definately recommend that you find a fish store that will take the fish off your hands and pick up something that will thrive in your tank. Also, know what you want to get beforehand, so you dont go into a store asking for, and recieving, bad advice.

PS- You say your chemical levels are fine. What exactly, in ppm, are your Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate levels? Furthermore, has the tank undergone a nitrate cycle?

-GS

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

Im really not trying to flame anybody man... I think my post is pretty informative. I know its not his fault :P
But I DO believe a pet store will take the fish for you. Check em all in your area.

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

What are your chemical readings (Ammonia, Nitrate, nitrite), and Have you cycled the tank? See my post above

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

If you dont know if you cycled it, chances are that you didnt :P
Also, the strips that give you a "safe" indicator are wrong 90% of this time. What is probably happening to your fish is an over abundance of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrites. I, and everyone else here, will be able to help you best if you get an accurate (exact number) reading.
And i cant stress enought that the entire problem will be solved if you bring the fish into a LFS!

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

Most of the Liquid Test kits sold in LFS (local fish stores) are of decent quality. Anything from AP (aquarium phamacuticals) or Nutrifin will be good. Basically, most liquid test kits that test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and sometimes PH, will be 110% more accurate than strips.

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

This one would be fine. They ar enormally 15-20 bucks and will last you a long time. http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCat...Type=0&offset=

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

Well thats all well and good, But have you found a suitable home, or even an lfs, to take them?

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

verreacting, joe? Its not like im yelling at him. And im DEFINATELY not "ridiculing" him. I am trying to help. And about "letting it go"... its not like the fish will be able to live out their life in the tank. I was telling him to rehome them because i did not realize how sick they were. Now that i have seen pictures i do. But even after the fish have been made healthy, Sue's suggestion of petco's adoption service would be a good way to go.
I agree with TOS... looks like some pretty nasty fungus. A salt dip might do the trick.
And no jessie, its not normal for them to randomly get sick. Have you tested with a liquid kit? that will give us some insight as to the problem. BTW, when yyour not completely sure as to what th eproblem is its not advised to medicate.

Well, there it is. Every post i have made in this topic save for the last one i just made. Read through it all. I have not harassed, berated, or put down anyone. Period. I tried offering help to you calmly and I was flamed for "flaming". If anything, I feel like the only one who has been harassed or berated in the whole thread. Do you think my first post was insulting just because i wasnt babying you? Your going to have to get used to that in life. You say i use "ammunition" against you like i am sitting here plotting new ways to harass you. Well, I tried my best and hopefully you can now see that I have done nothing. I feel rather unapreciated actually. Im just going to stop posting in this thread so im not accused of anything else.

[Ichthius]

Originally Posted by Jessiebug829

Is it normal (in terms of fish getting sick) for them to just get sick like this? I know that something in their environment got messed up when I cleaned their tank but if nothing bad was introduced to the tank then I suppose I don't understand how they got sick. Is it just whatever badness is in all of the poop they produce that they got more susceptible to it with the stress of the tank cleaning?

Fungal infections often appear as a secondary infection. Meaning, it's not abnormal for this fungus to have appeared on your fish after such a nasty bit of fin rot. The stress of the previous illness and the tank conditions did make the fish more susceptible, yes, but I wouldn't go as far as saying the actual tank cleaning caused enough stress. I'd assume there are other factors; the fin rot, water chemistry? An external anti-fungal medication should clear it up.

For the record, I don't think anyone in this thread should be "flamed." And that's not just referring to the treatment of the OP . I read this entire thread and think you've gotten some very helpful information, Jessie. Nelson, Gourami Swami, has tried to help you, as has everyone else. That's why we're here; we love fish and love keeping them. I'd just like to remind everyone, this is the internet, people are misunderstood all the time .

[Willow]

I know this is kinda random, but a lot of people have been recommending that you take your goldfish to PetCo to be adopted out. This of course would get them out of your hair, but I personally would not do it. The employees at PetCo are not particularly concerned about WHO adopts the fish, so they'd most likely end up in a 2.5 gallon tank owned by a 7-year-old kid who knows how to beg loudly, whose parents are hoping the fish will die quickly. Or just end up in another 10g, this time with someone who ISN'T willing to go to a fish forum to ask how to improve things. I guess I would want to know what kind of home they would be going to. Just another point of view to consider .

[joe kool]

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

Overreacting, joe? Its not like im yelling at him. And im DEFINATELY not "ridiculing" him. I am trying to help. And about "letting it go"... its not like the fish will be able to live out their life in the tank. I was telling him to rehome them because i did not realize how sick they were. Now that i have seen pictures i do. But even after the fish have been made healthy, Sue's suggestion of petco's adoption service would be a good way to go.

Swami ... As indicated by her post directly under the one I quoted here, I was simply reading the non-verbals ( in between the lines if you will) that; 1) she was attempting to better the fishes health and planning on getting them a new home once healthy, 2) she was learning more about the hobby and what she needed to be successful, and most importantly 3) becoming agitated with the more than frequent suggestions of getting rid of them which she had intentions of once they were healthy going back to her second or 3 post on here.

I calmly suggested that you give her a little more than 2 days to get them healthy and prepared for a new home and had you read Sues posts she has been referred to Jake Mang's store and I'm more than sure the highly competent folks there will prevent anything like this from happening again (in her case anyway)

Truth be told I brought this posts attention to TOS and Sue because of the direction I felt it was headed and Sue came in and gave some great advice and TOS scolded me via PM for being a little too sensitive so consider it a learning experiance for the both of us. Turns out I wasn't far off base with my feelings after all.

I was in no way trying to belittle you or your advise I was simply reading the tension in her posts rising and her frustration with the whole situation (dealing with the sick fish and constant reminders that she needed to get rid of them)

[joe kool]

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

And no jessie, its not normal for them to randomly get sick.

YES ... especially in tank/pond raised environments is it normal for "some" fish to just get sick ... you will have a genetically weaker species once you get 2 or 3 generations into this scenario and not having "survival of the fittest" rules in play (because we humans believe that every last one has to survive no matter how sick, deformed, or what ever; just look at our medical system today and the time energy and money we put into saving every little life on an already severely overpopulated planet. Not that I wouldn't do the same, as I said it's human nature ... not natures plan.)

In nature if a fish even "coughs" or swims a little differently or maybe even doing nothing wrong at all just not fast enough to get to cover their toast. you only have the very strongest of the species that survive and they procreate and only the strongest out of that generation survive.

There are no absolutes in life sans 2 things being born and dieing.

[Jessiebug829]

I didn't mean to flame you Gourami. I was simply trying to make myself clear that the constant reminders of why I need to get rid of them are unnecessary. Having perfect water chemistry will help them, but I can only give you the information I know which is that the test strips all say they are safe. I can give you the intervals on the test strips but that wouldn't mean much. I am a very broke college student. I had a choice of buying these fish a fungal treatment and fish salt to help them, or a test kit to give you exact numbers. I chose the medicine. I can't tell you what I can't tell you.

I am getting more stressed (as joe rightly observed) every time someone reminds me that I need to get rid of them or find a random place that they're "sure" (as you put it) I should easily be able to find. It implies I'm not trying. For a constructive comment regarding my getting rid of them you should see Sue's posts for an example. She helped me find a place. I know I need to give them a better home. Please read that sentence and absorb it because I'm quite tired of repeating it. That's why I got upset with you.

I appreciate your input, as long as it's constructive and not redundant.

[Jessiebug829]

So the latest is that someone contacted me about the ad I placed on Craigslist. They have a 50 gal tank with just algae eaters in it now and think my fish would be a nice christmas present for their kids. I've been given the impression these fish need (quite) a bit more space than that but it would be a vast improvement over what I'm giving them now. Can anyone help me decide if this is a bad idea or not?

[Willow]

I think a 50g tank would be a decent home for 3 goldies for many years. It's not a perfect situation, but it's definitely better than most goldfish get, and is probably the best placement you can expect to find for them. As long as the family understand that they can't put 7 or 8 more goldies in with them. That's my opinion.

[Jessiebug829]

So it turns out the white bump I couldn't identify is an anchor worm. It says I need to pick it off with tweezers. I'm afraid to hurt him so I'm going to call the fish store Sue suggested (rather, I did call but they aren't open yet) and see if they'll help me first. He still has a fungus all over his tail like a sock and around where the worm is.

How does an anchor worm get in to the tank? I don't understand that.

[Baby_Baby]

Anchor worms can be brought in on a newly arriving fish, that hasn't been quarantined, or even as an egg on plant.

[Jessiebug829]

I didn't add any new fish or plants or anything living to the tank since I put them in it two months ago though. The only thing I've added to their tank that is new for them (not given before this past week) is aquarium salt and a fungus treatment that dissolves int he water. They've had the same fish food, filters all from the same box, water from the same tap, etc. Any ideas where it might have come from? Am I to suspect parasites in our water now, because that's a whole bigger issue than just poor Marty.

Is it possible he always had the parasite and it just came out opportunistically after the septicemia and the fin rot since Marty is weaker?

[Jessiebug829]

Well Marty died while I was at class today. I just found him. At least he isn't suffering anymore.

I still don't understand how the worm got into the tank to begin with since I didn't add any living things into it.

[Baby_Baby]

Sorry to hear about your loss

Maybe when you bought him, there was one in the bag. Maybe not on him but in the water?

Here are pictures, by the way, of anchor worms, just so you can reaffirm your diagnosis.

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/photos/f...sh/anchor2.jpg

http://www.fishpondinfo.com/photos/f...ish/anchor.jpg