Cycling questions

[fishmoniker]

Hello there, I've searched this forum before but only registered today. About a month ago I decided to get back into aquarium fish. I bought a 20 gal. with all the supplies needed to start. My girlfriend insisted on getting guppies and so after everything was set up she picked out 6 male guppies for the cycling period. We've had them for about 2 weeks now and everything is going perfectly, steady temperature, fish all active, and very, very low ammonia. And that's my problem. I haven't seen a rise in ammonia, at ALL, in the two weeks that we've had the fish. Not the slightest trace of nitrite. I feed them once every other day.

My question, finally, is this normal? I have no clue how long cycling takes. Does it vary from tank to tank? Or is there an average? Will patience win this battle?

Another question I have is about evaporation. I never seemed to have this problem with my last tank, but I get a lot of evaporation over the days (about 1 inch gone every three days). To combat this I've been doing about 25% water changes every Wednesday and Saturday (just got done doing it). I was wondering if this is hindering the cycling period? Should I continue this pattern? Is there anything else I can do to slow evaporation (like a different brand of light)?

(To complete the tank once it's done cycling I want to get four corys.)

Any reply or insight will be greaty appreciated, and I thank you in advance.

edit: I searched for this but couldn't really find anything that answered my question, I apologize if this was discussed before.

[Huugs]

Do you have a hood?

As for cycling you may not notice that much of a rise but it normally takes 4-6 weeks. When you do a fiishless cycle you still need to do water changes because the ammonia and nitrite need to be kept lower than doing a fishless cycle otherwise you harm the fish. Doing the water changes could increase the length of time but it is nesscary for the fishes health. Just be patient and keep the levels pretty low.

[fishmoniker]

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, I do have a hood. The tank I bought came with a basic hood/lighting setup. I was wondering if the light may be causing the evaporation? It's made by "All-Glass Aquarium" if brand is an issue.

Ok, so about a month and a half then to complete the cycling process?

[Huugs]

Sounds like quite a lot of evapoation for a plastic hood but it wont cause the fish problems until it all drys up. rather than doing a water change you can just top it off (add more wate to fill it up).
Probably that long yes. The ammonia spike is normally soon after 10 days so soon you should be getting ammonia readings of zero and your nitrite will rise. Bit surprising there is none still but with time it should sort itself.
Is it planted?

[TheOldSalt]

It can take six weeks sometimes, yeah.
The water changes you've been making are indeed what is hindering the process. If you keep taking away the bacteria's food, they won't grow.

By the way, the cycling process is never complete until you completely stop adding fish.

[fishmoniker]

So instead of doing the water changes I should just top off the evaporation? I thought about doing this before but read that it isn't that good. Just because of the minerals in the water that dont evaporate along with it.

Huugs if by planted you mean live plants then, no. I don't think I'm ready to keep live plants haha.

[Vivid-Dawn]

Everything but nitrites!

I just set up a 60 (but only holds 50) gallon tank, on the 3rd. There are 3 Giant Danios to cycle it (yes, I know that's cruel, but I figured it would go faster?). I got a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter - labled for up to 75 gallons - since so many people say that's the best... it was also cheaper than others!
I feed only a little food (whatever's left over if I dip my finger in the food, and tap 'extra' off, then brush it off in the water) in the morning and evening, half an hour before/after the lights go on/off. No live plants...yet. Might put in a few sprigs of Anacharis next week.

Yesterday (8th), I did a 4 gallon water change, which is just under 10%, because I've read water changes won't matter for the cycling part, and as Huugs said, is good for the fish anyway.
So anyhoo. On the 4th, my readings were this:
pH: 8.2 (my water is very hard, but I dunno the exact GH/KH readings)
Ammonia: 0.10
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temp: 80 F (and that's with the heater unplugged)

Now today my readings are
Temp same
pH (didn't bother testing, it's probably the same... I plan to put peat moss in the filter today)
Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2.5

Basically, my question is... if there are Nitrates, shouldn't there be Nitrites too? I know it's been only a week, but I figured that was logical, if both the other levels had a number to them!

[Huugs]

You only really need to do water changes to get the levels down. So if you arent getting any readings or they are very low I wouldnt worry about doing them.

Have you tested your tap water That could be your source of nitrate? Mine comes out with 20ppm of nitrate which was confusing me at first. The ammonia should drop 10-12 after starting. Nitrite is about 25-30 ish days. Im surprised that your nitrate test measures that low amounts. The ones I have seen only do 0ppm them 5.0ppm. Just wondering if youve got it confused with nitrIte.

On another note its best to have the heater plugged in even if the temperature is well above what you have it set on. Just incase overnitght it drops suddenly. That way your heater wont let it go below the temp set. As long as it is thermostatically controlled.
I would probably leave the peat moss untill after you have cycled just because thats another added worry of pH swings.

fishmoniker: There was another discussing on another thread about whether water changes slowed down the cycle and no one decided anything. I think its down to personal experence. But if you have fish in there you have to do water changes to stop the levels geting too high. No need to change anything unless the levels are too high so u can just top up then. I wouldnt worry about the minerals for the emoment.

[Vivid-Dawn]

I haven't ever tested my tap water... I suppose I should.
I do my tests one at a time, so I don't get 'em mixed up! I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals drip/vial tests.

And the only reason I unplugged the heater, was I had it set to 72, but my thermometer was reading 85 for the first 2 days... I figured that was too high to be healthy (especially since my poor fish are being subjected to all this other stress too)
I suppose I could plug it in before I go to bed, and unplug it in the morning...?

[Huugs]

Well if it is working properly the heater should only turn on once the temperature drops below 72 so if the reoom temperature is allways 80 it may never come on but I prefer the knowledge that it cant drop below what the heater is set on.

If you havnt got mixed up with the nitrites and nitrates then its strange but try your tap water and if its not that then hopefully someone else could give you a better answer. The tank isnt cycled yet as you are getting ammonia readings so be patent and you will get some nitrite readings in the next few days.

[Vivid-Dawn]

Originally Posted by Huugs

The ones I have seen only do 0ppm them 5.0ppm. Just wondering if youve got it confused with nitrIte.

Oh, sorry I confused you. It does go from 0 to 5.0 ...but the color in my tube wasn't yellow, but it also wasn't soft orange..sort of an in-between, so I guessed an inbetween number, and half of 5 is 2.5 *g*

Anyhoo... oddly enough, my tap water is pure? I waited the whole five minutes, and even until 10 minutes... Nitrites 0 and Nitrates the middle of 0-5.0, and Ammonia 0 ...maybe I did it wrong, but I doubt it. I tested just like I do for my aquarium water.
Which I suppose is a good thing, since that means I won't have to worry about it too much! I still aerate it 24 hours and use AmQuel Plus and Novaqua Plus anyway.
And eventually, when I’m rich, I want to get a really good, high quality 4-stage (or maybe 5? I think I saw one once) RO/DI system.

[Huugs]

So your tap water has the same amount of nitrates as the tank then. Thats why your getting readings in the tank. Ha syour ammonia levels drop to zero yet?
I wouldnt worry that you dont have any readilbe nitrites until a few days after you have got the ammonia down to 0. Patience is a key for cycling the tank really. Hope this helps.

[Vivid-Dawn]

Well, Amquel Plus says it detoxifies Nitrates... which means they shouldn't be read on the chart, right? I also aerate my water for at least 12 hours, which was suggested by somebody on this forum earlier (before the crash, so I can't look up who it was...might'a been a couple people actually).

Anyhoo, you're right. It's one of those "hurry up and wait" situations LOL

[Huugs]

When a chemical says it detoxifies something it doesnt actually remove it, it just converts it to a less harmful version. The trouble with this is that test kits still detect it. So If you use chemicals to detoxify stuff you end up not being able to tell how much of it is actually harmful to the fish and therefore no way of knowing when you will run into a problem. It is better to keep the levels in check by doing water changes or fixing the problem that is causing th high levels.

I have heard that letting the watre stand will mean the cholrine will evaporate therefore meaning tou dont need to treat with any de-chlorinator. It doesnt allow the chloramine to evaporate thought so I just us the de-chlor for that and dont bother letting it sit. Apparently letting it sit is better for the fish than 'raw' water. It wont allow the nitrates to go though.

If I were you I would just use one lot of chemicals that says it removes chlorine and chloramine (I use Nutrafin AquaPlus) and you can let it sit for a while. I would stick clear of stuff that says 'de-toxifies something' on the bottle as that will just confuse the tests.

[Thunderkiss]

Heh, amQuel .... Yeah they SAY a lot of things. Detoxify nitrates? not bloody likely. If they had that, then keeping fish would be easy and everyone would do it. tetra came out with easy balance for the lazy aquarist. Straight from the Devils workshop.

Anywho, i never knew amquel to detoxify nitrates, it always said ammonia and i never even trusted it for that.

So yeah, hurry up and wait

[judya]

The evaporation may be the filter's fault. I have Aquaclear hangons on some of my tanks and those seem to evaporate faster. Somebody told me the motors tend to heat a bit more and so evaporate easier.