omg :( - Page 2

**Fishfirst** · 10-11-2005, 06:19 PM

like I said, copper can be used to kill any invert, and is fairly safe on fish if its only used for a few days.

AshleytheGreat · 10-12-2005, 04:58 PM

Do you have any recomendations of what to get??

fishboy · 10-12-2005, 05:06 PM

alot of fin rot and other meds have copper.

**Fishfirst** · 10-13-2005, 09:31 AM

ich medications have copper... not fin rot, fin rot meds have a antibiotic which copper is not. Coppersafe from mardel is pretty good, you may have blue silicone for a few months but I think i'd be worth it.

Georgia Peach · 10-13-2005, 02:03 PM

ewww, hope you get rid of'em

AshleytheGreat · 10-13-2005, 07:01 PM

There also in the HOB filter....so im guessing in the filter pads...should i just replace them to?

fishboy · 10-13-2005, 07:56 PM

well i'd cut the back of the carteidge off, remove the carbon so it wouldn't strain the copper out, then just add the coppersafe and kill the hydra, adding a new filter pad will be a waste because if you hav alot of hydra die off then the dead hydra may clogg the new filter pad so it would just be a waste of a filter pad

drosera · 10-13-2005, 08:46 PM

Ashley, as you might have noticed on my web page, I'm not the biggest fan of copper preparations. They can harm your plants, sometimes your fish, and upset the biological system itself. That being said sometimes it's use seems unavoidable.

Copper is effective for Hydra. But if you are right and you have Ostracods in your tank, this will only solve the problem for a short time. Same goes with Cyclops, in case that's what you have. These last 2 are crustaceans, and have developped very effective ways of dealing with toxins and other harmful (though sometimes natural) biological effects. The Ostracods you have in your tank right now would probably all die, but within their bodies they will be sheltering their young, who will repopulate your tank. Cyclops eggs are also very resilient and long lasting.

In effect, will Copper kill Ostracods and Cyclops. Yes. Will it solve your problem. Not at all. Within a month or 2, 3 at the most, you will find yourself right back where you started. In my experience, it is pretty rare, *especially* for Ostracods, to be so numerous in a well kept aquarium. When I have seen them, they tended to be in the gravel, where they were safe from the fish and the current. Cyclops are a little more adventuresome, but even with them, you will usually find the greatest concentration near or in the gravel.

If you really want to minimize/maybe eradicate them, it might help me if you told me what the general setup for your tank is. How big is the tank? What kind of filter do you use? How planted/decorated is the tank? Are your plants generally healthy? Do you have a lot of algae in the tank? Could you be overfeeding the fish? Something is clearly enabling these crustacea to do overly well in your tank, and we have to try to find the cause.

I remember you stating you had hatchet fish, right? Any others? Not that that makes much difference, few fish can really have a major impact on these small creatures. Not that I know this to be true, but perhaps some ghost/amano/etc shrimp may help your situation. They are very good at sifting for small food such as these. Freshwater clams *may* also be a benefit.

I'll be willing to give you whatever advice I can to help. But I would like to repeat that having such benign microfauna in a tank is quite natural and harmless. The only problem here is that you obviously have WAY too many.

Take care!

fishboy · 10-13-2005, 09:21 PM

i think its hard to confuse hydra with cyclops

drosera · 10-13-2005, 10:16 PM

I agree, but by Ashley's own post, she herself now says she thinks she has Ostracods. And from her descriptions, it really doesn't sound like Hydra at least. From what I'm reading, it's everyone else who is continuing to say Hydra.

TAke care!

**Fishfirst** · 10-14-2005, 09:59 AM

eggs surviving through a copper treatment? Now thats news to me. Maybe someone more experianced could jump in like TOS???

AshleytheGreat · 10-14-2005, 03:51 PM

Its a 20 gal tank. All fake plants. I have 6 hatchtes and thats it. I have a HOB filter and an UG filter. I used to have a dwarf puffer and i fed him brine shrimp...but he died about 2 months ago.

drosera · 10-14-2005, 09:20 PM

That is a very beautiful tank Ashley. Looks well kept to me to. FWIW, here are my final suggestions. It seems to me that you don't have much current throughout the tank. I may be wrong about this, since it's simply my perception of your picture. I couldn't quite make out the filters exactly, but I'm guessing at least the UGF has a power head. If so, and if the other filter is powered as well, you might want to try reorienting them so that the whole tank, or as much as possible, gets some kind of good flow.

Like I said before, shrimp would be a good idea, since they are the only things I can think of that could directly eat such small organisms. I would also recommend 2-3 kuhli loaches to eat any food that has gotten by the hatchets. They will also be able to get *some* of the food that gets through your gravel, which appears to be of large size. If you like them, trumpet snails will also help with uneaten food in the gravel.

Your wood looks very clean and good. But you just might want to keep an eye out that your little infestors aren't too numerous on it. In theory at least, the wood could harbor them. There are some plecos that eat wood and whatever comes with it. You might want to consider getting a small one of these.

Water parameters, though important for the fish, are not so important for these little intruders, so as far as *that* goes, there isn't much you can do there. (Still watch them for your fish though

) Keeping algae down to minimal levels does help, but it looks like you have that under control.

So to sum up, I really think you may have a problem with uneaten food getting in/under the gravel, providing food for your Ostracods or whatever you have. Taking care of this, and upping the current in the tank, really should take care of the problem. If you absolutely want to, do a copper treatment once. Though I don't believe it will be a final cure, it will give you a head start in controlling them.

Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have anymore questions.

AshleytheGreat · 10-15-2005, 09:19 AM

Thanks

Although I noticed that today that a lot were gone!

10-11-2005, 06:19 PM	#21
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,614	like I said, copper can be used to kill any invert, and is fairly safe on fish if its only used for a few days. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

10-12-2005, 04:58 PM	#22
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 785	Do you have any recomendations of what to get?? __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

10-12-2005, 05:06 PM	#23
fishboy Custom User Title Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 17 Posts: 1,649	alot of fin rot and other meds have copper. __________________ It is only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

10-13-2005, 09:31 AM	#24
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,614	ich medications have copper... not fin rot, fin rot meds have a antibiotic which copper is not. Coppersafe from mardel is pretty good, you may have blue silicone for a few months but I think i'd be worth it. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

10-13-2005, 02:03 PM	#25
Georgia Peach Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gray, Georgia Age: 42 Posts: 1,706	ewww, hope you get rid of'em __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Cichlids have more personality than most people I know !*

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10-13-2005, 07:01 PM	#26
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 785	There also in the HOB filter....so im guessing in the filter pads...should i just replace them to? __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

10-13-2005, 07:56 PM	#27
fishboy Custom User Title Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 17 Posts: 1,649	well i'd cut the back of the carteidge off, remove the carbon so it wouldn't strain the copper out, then just add the coppersafe and kill the hydra, adding a new filter pad will be a waste because if you hav alot of hydra die off then the dead hydra may clogg the new filter pad so it would just be a waste of a filter pad __________________ It is only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

10-13-2005, 08:46 PM	#28
drosera Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 61	Copper effectiveness Ashley, as you might have noticed on my web page, I'm not the biggest fan of copper preparations. They can harm your plants, sometimes your fish, and upset the biological system itself. That being said sometimes it's use seems unavoidable. Copper is effective for Hydra. But if you are right and you have Ostracods in your tank, this will only solve the problem for a short time. Same goes with Cyclops, in case that's what you have. These last 2 are crustaceans, and have developped very effective ways of dealing with toxins and other harmful (though sometimes natural) biological effects. The Ostracods you have in your tank right now would probably all die, but within their bodies they will be sheltering their young, who will repopulate your tank. Cyclops eggs are also very resilient and long lasting. In effect, will Copper kill Ostracods and Cyclops. Yes. Will it solve your problem. Not at all. Within a month or 2, 3 at the most, you will find yourself right back where you started. In my experience, it is pretty rare, especially for Ostracods, to be so numerous in a well kept aquarium. When I have seen them, they tended to be in the gravel, where they were safe from the fish and the current. Cyclops are a little more adventuresome, but even with them, you will usually find the greatest concentration near or in the gravel. If you really want to minimize/maybe eradicate them, it might help me if you told me what the general setup for your tank is. How big is the tank? What kind of filter do you use? How planted/decorated is the tank? Are your plants generally healthy? Do you have a lot of algae in the tank? Could you be overfeeding the fish? Something is clearly enabling these crustacea to do overly well in your tank, and we have to try to find the cause. I remember you stating you had hatchet fish, right? Any others? Not that that makes much difference, few fish can really have a major impact on these small creatures. Not that I know this to be true, but perhaps some ghost/amano/etc shrimp may help your situation. They are very good at sifting for small food such as these. Freshwater clams may also be a benefit. I'll be willing to give you whatever advice I can to help. But I would like to repeat that having such benign microfauna in a tank is quite natural and harmless. The only problem here is that you obviously have WAY too many. Take care! __________________ http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/fish.htm

10-13-2005, 09:21 PM	#29
fishboy Custom User Title Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 17 Posts: 1,649	i think its hard to confuse hydra with cyclops __________________ It is only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

10-13-2005, 10:16 PM	#30
drosera Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 61	Confusion I agree, but by Ashley's own post, she herself now says she thinks she has Ostracods. And from her descriptions, it really doesn't sound like Hydra at least. From what I'm reading, it's everyone else who is continuing to say Hydra. TAke care! __________________ http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/fish.htm

10-14-2005, 09:59 AM	#31
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,614	eggs surviving through a copper treatment? Now thats news to me. Maybe someone more experianced could jump in like TOS??? __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

10-14-2005, 03:51 PM	#32
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 785	Its a 20 gal tank. All fake plants. I have 6 hatchtes and thats it. I have a HOB filter and an UG filter. I used to have a dwarf puffer and i fed him brine shrimp...but he died about 2 months ago. __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

10-14-2005, 09:20 PM	#33
drosera Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 61	Nice tank! That is a very beautiful tank Ashley. Looks well kept to me to. FWIW, here are my final suggestions. It seems to me that you don't have much current throughout the tank. I may be wrong about this, since it's simply my perception of your picture. I couldn't quite make out the filters exactly, but I'm guessing at least the UGF has a power head. If so, and if the other filter is powered as well, you might want to try reorienting them so that the whole tank, or as much as possible, gets some kind of good flow. Like I said before, shrimp would be a good idea, since they are the only things I can think of that could directly eat such small organisms. I would also recommend 2-3 kuhli loaches to eat any food that has gotten by the hatchets. They will also be able to get some of the food that gets through your gravel, which appears to be of large size. If you like them, trumpet snails will also help with uneaten food in the gravel. Your wood looks very clean and good. But you just might want to keep an eye out that your little infestors aren't too numerous on it. In theory at least, the wood could harbor them. There are some plecos that eat wood and whatever comes with it. You might want to consider getting a small one of these. Water parameters, though important for the fish, are not so important for these little intruders, so as far as that goes, there isn't much you can do there. (Still watch them for your fish though) Keeping algae down to minimal levels does help, but it looks like you have that under control. So to sum up, I really think you may have a problem with uneaten food getting in/under the gravel, providing food for your Ostracods or whatever you have. Taking care of this, and upping the current in the tank, really should take care of the problem. If you absolutely want to, do a copper treatment once. Though I don't believe it will be a final cure, it will give you a head start in controlling them. Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have anymore questions. __________________ http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/fish.htm

10-15-2005, 09:19 AM	#34
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 785	Thanks Although I noticed that today that a lot were gone! __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

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