New tank couple of concerns

[logans]

I just started a new tank. Here is a little background on what I did to get started. I have s 29 gallon tank. I have a biowheel 200 filter. I have a heater but I am not using it because the water temperature seems to stay around 75 to 78 degrees without the heater. When I first set the tank up I treated the water with Kent Eco-Start and Kent First Step for 4 days and let the filter run in the tank for 5 days before going out and getting any fish. I have not done any testing of the water for PH levels or anything else like that. From things I have read and from talking to the pet store employees I was given several different suggestions on types of fish to get as good starter fish and how many to start with. We ended up picking out 4 fish to start our aquarium. We picked out a Black Molly, Black Skirt Tetra, Rosy Tetra, and Mickey Mouse Platy.

We added these 4 fish to our aquarium last night. When we first added them the Black Molly was real active and seemed the most excited to eat when we fed them. The Mickey Mouse Platy showed no interest in eating. Well now it has been about 24 hours since we got our fish and we have noticed that the Platy still shows no interest in eating and we also noticed that he has one good fin on one side and on the other side he doesnt seem to really have a fin, just a little nub. We also just notice that the side of his body with the bad fin has kind of a white looking scrape on the side of his face and white on the nub where the fin is supposed to be. He will swim some but hangs out at the bottom of the tank a lot and I worry because he doesn't seem to want to eat. The Black Molly which use to seem fine and ate right away showed no interest in eating this evening and he just sits behind a plastic plant for hours on end with no desire to move. My wife also noticed that his fop fin which used to be straight up now kinda hangs over. The 2 tetras seem to be doing just fine and they swim all around together and appear very happy.

My questions are:
Is there anything I should have done differently or have missed doing based on my description of my tank set up and the fish I purchaed to start my tank?

My wife read that Platy's can regrow their fin if it is missing. Is this true? And will it only having 1 good fin on 1 side cause a problem long term or be a factor with his ability to want to move around and eat? Any ideas on how to help him want to eat? As far as the white looking scrape and white on his fin any ideas what that might be? A fungus maybe? A healing body from getting scraped?

Any ideas as to why the Black Mollly which ate so well last night now just sits in one spot behind a plant at the bottom of the tank and has no desire to eat?


Im brand new at this so any feedback would be great.

Thanks
---Mike

[douglas]

hi your first mistake was conversation with fish store employees and not doing hours of research on sites such as this and aquabid.com you can really gain bunches info just looking at the auction pages.
a close examination of the fish before purchase will be a lesson learned.
is it possible the Platy doesn't like the food offered?
have they been offered to much food?(overfeeding)
how do you propose to isolate the sick fish?
the moral of the story: fish ain't easy!!

[ron v]

Please purchase a test kit for ammonia and nitrite. Post the results here.

[douglas]

last month I lost a whole tank of Kuhli Loaches. about 18 of the rascals.
several Amazon swords and Java Moss just like the book says. plenty filtration.
pool sand substrate.
all was well for several months.
my mistake?? I added Malaysian Trumpet Snails and I believe the population explosion was more than the tank could handle. despite water changes, within a week the tank was a stinkin mess. Stunk the whole house up when I finally broke it down.
so much for Mr Research . . . . .

[logans]

Originally Posted by douglas

hi your first mistake was conversation with fish store employees and not doing hours of research on sites such as this and aquabid.com you can really gain bunches info just looking at the auction pages.
a close examination of the fish before purchase will be a lesson learned.
is it possible the Platy doesn't like the food offered?
have they been offered to much food?(overfeeding)
how do you propose to isolate the sick fish?
the moral of the story: fish ain't easy!!

Well I new from the beginning that it wouldn't be easy to take care of fish especially the first 2 weeks with a new tank while the water levels stabalize. I felt I did quite a bit of reading and have learned a lot before jumping in and getting started. Its not like I just up and bought a bunch of fish and threw them in a new tank. We went to 2 different pet stores that sold fish it was quickly obvious that a couple of employees really knew their stuff and one guy in particular had several of his own tanks at home. He was the one that suggested to start with Tetras. There were a couple of other employees that I can tell were pretty clueless but tried to sound like they knew what they were talking about.

It is the next morning now and the Platy is now lying on his back at the bottom of the tank but he his still alive. My 9 year old daughter who picked out that fish is crying because of it and doesn't want me to take it out unless he dies. Although I think the best thing at this point is to just take it out. I am not sure if the fish got injured when the pet store employeee transferred it because she was quite rough with them when she scooped them into a bag or if it was already injured. The Tetras still seem to be doing great and I am still worried about the Molly.

I will get a test kit today and report back the water levels.

----Mike

[ron v]

Get a liquid test kit. IMO it is better than the paper strips.

[TheOldSalt]

Mollies are a bit touchy in regard to moving from tank to tank, and they can often do fine the first day and then hit a slump once the shock finally catches up to them. If the temperature in your tank is much lower than that of the tank they were in at the shop, then that would certainly explain it.

The platy is infected, of course, either from being injured in the capture or having been bitten by one of the other fish. Ordinarily it shouldn't be too big a problem since platies are tough, but in a new tank all fish have a harder time of things.

Is it possible that there is some overfeeding happening? Kids are very prone to feeding the fish when no one is looking, and so are spouses who don't yet know better.

Finally, mollies & platies like their water a certain way, while tetras like their water a completely different way. It's certainly possible that the water in your tank is more like the water in the tank the tetras were in at the store, resulting in them not having any transfer shock, OR the water in your tank may simply be more suited to tetras instead of to mollies & platies. The only way to tell if that's the case is to test your pH & hardness, or at least your pH. If your tank is newly set up with tapwater, and if your petshop is nearby, then they can probably tell you what your water qualities should be like out of the faucet since it'll be like theirs.
At any rate, it often works out better to figure out what kind of water you have, and choose fish which like your kind of water.
That said, you most likely have water best suited to mollies & platies, which most people do if they have city water, with the opposite being true if they have well water.

[Sprite42]

If you bought your fish from a local pet store, they are probably somewhat conditioned to your pH. The key there is stability. Most fish will adjust to different ranges of pH. It is the rapid and extreme fluctuations that will get them.

What type of decorations do you have? Are there any sharp edges or places that may be a tight fit for any of your fish?

Also, most of the fish you started with are schoolers and like to be with their own kind and do better in groups. They do this for protection. A lone schooling fish sometimes tends to hide more if they are by themselves. We know there are no predators after them, but they don't.

I am not familiar with your water conditioners. Do they remove chloramines and break down heavy metals?

[logans]

What level PH is good for Mollies and what PH level is good for Tetras? And if they both need different PH levels are they even compatible in the same tank? I will be getting a test kit today and I will post back the results later. I am not sure if my natural water conditions include the removal of chloramines and break down of heavy metals.

---Mike

[logans]

Ok I posted my test results in a new thread any feedback would be appreciated.

---Mike

[Georgia Peach]

tank should have been cycled BEFORE adding any fish

[logans]

Originally Posted by Georgia Peach

tank should have been cycled BEFORE adding any fish

I cycled the tank for 5 days before adding fish.

---Mike

[ron v]

How did you cycle in so short a time frame? Did you use Bio-spira?

[logans]

Originally Posted by ron v

How did you cycle in so short a time frame? Did you use Bio-spira?

I guess I am misunderstanding what is meant by cycling. I thought cycling a tank was another term used for running a filter for a few days and letting all the water cycle through the filter. I guess I am wrong. Could you let me know what is meant by the term "cycling a tank"?

Most of the info I read said a tank should be set up with a filter running for at least 3 days or even as long as a week or more before adding fish. I figured 5 days was long enough. My biowheel fiter says it filters 200 gallons per hour.

No I did not use bio-spira. From what I read bio-spira can be used if you want to add a full load of fish immediately. I just added 4 fish to start a 29 gallon tank with the intention of adding more after about 3 weeks.

Should I go ahead and add bio-spira? Also how does my water look based on my test results. To me it looks good with ammonia at only .25 I am sure that will raise once the fish have been in there longer. By the way I think the reason the Molly was acting sluggish was because of too low of water temp. It was at around 72. I turned the heater on and the Molly hung out by the heater. Now the water is at 78 and it seems happier. He also ate some freeze dried blood worms.

---Mike

[leveldrummer]

there is a sticky in the beginner section called the nitrogen cycle, read it, it will help you understand what everyone means by cycle the tank. your tank will go through alot of changes before its really stable and it will take about a month, in this time the water is very harmful to fish, so please read that post.

[logans]

Ok, I already knew that the tank is going to go through the cycle. Everything that I read however talked about addding 3 or 4 fish right away and then doing water changes to keep the ammonia levels down. This is the first I had heard of doing a fishless cycle. Well, the fish are in and they all seem to be doing well. 3 Tetras are following each other all over the tank and 2 Mollies are hanging out together but less active. I will be monitoring the ammonia , nitrite and nitrate levels daily and doing water changes about 25% at a time. Thanks for all the help thus far.

---Mike

[Fishfirst]

Its not that cycling with fish doesn't work, its just that you must consider those fish, "expendable" and a lot of members here do not like to do that if at all possible.

[logans]

Originally Posted by Fishfirst

Its not that cycling with fish doesn't work, its just that you must consider those fish, "expendable" and a lot of members here do not like to do that if at all possible.

Yes I understand. My family (wife and 3 kids) are animal lovers fish is the latest addition to a dog and 2 rats. We definitely don't consider our fish "expendable". We have already spent hours just watching our new fish and have quickly grown attached to each one as we notice that each has its own personality. I guess in the articles I read I didn't see anything about cycling a tank without fish. Looks like I should have looked a little harder. Well, I will definitley be on top of the ammonia levels and do the water changes in an effort to keep things stable.

---Mike

[leveldrummer]

alot of people still cycle the old way, with fish, i do it too. but i havent cycled a tank in a long time, but if you really watch your levels, you wont loose fish, its not that big of a deal. when your ammonia peaks and starts to go down, add some aquarium salt, that will help the fish deal with the nitrites and nitrates.

[logans]

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

alot of people still cycle the old way, with fish, i do it too. but i havent cycled a tank in a long time, but if you really watch your levels, you wont loose fish, its not that big of a deal. when your ammonia peaks and starts to go down, add some aquarium salt, that will help the fish deal with the nitrites and nitrates.

Ok, thanks. I have been doing daily water changes of about 25 to 30% of the water. So far fish seem very happy and active. I think I have myself a new hobby.

---Mike