Want a small marine tank? It's your money!

[Ice]

No - when I said "Wow ! I give up !" I meant in a way that I was alittle discouraged with Reefneck's comment with to me trying to start a marine tank with a 28 gallon; even though I'm not looking to start one in the very immediate future but in a year or 2. Although I do understand your point of view and all. I now feel it's not my place to argue with my reason starting a marine tank. Peace out (for now).

[Reefneck]

Look around Ice.....I am not alone in trying to discourage something that has more chances of failure than for success. This was not directed at you alone, There have been several posts in the past week with people wanting to do this and I would feel horrible if I said nothing or encouraged it and it failed as it most likely will. I would feel partially at fault.

So I ask that people listen to the experts that have tried and failed. That they start with 50 gallons or more so they can be successful on theri first try and then after a person has learned all there is involved they may decide it was smart not to do a small tank.

Should also consider the animals that go into these failed experiments and suffer or die because things go wrong.

[Ice]

Ok then. Let me ask you one more question - what are your thoughts on either 36 gallon or a 40 gallon tank ? With the idea everybody SHOULD start with a 50 - 55 gallon tank is abit of a reach in cost to equip it and and live rock / live sand. The other reason why some people don't want to go 50 - 55 gallons is simply the lack of space due to the actual size of the tank to display it. I do understand the advantages of larger tanks (water more stable etc ...) but do think those under 55 gallons can do well except they have to be more cautious and dilligient with making sure the tank doesn't get a heavy bioload and crash altogether. The reason I want to start SW is I don't like freshwater fish setup nor freshwater fish. One reason is I personnaly think they tend to be messy fish and not as beautiful as Marine fish. Granted, some would say African and S. American Chiclids rival marine fish in beauty but I personaly don't see the comparision. I know I'm going to get some FW aquarists fins shaking at the comment but that's just my opinion. So, as I said before - I do respect your opinion; but I think not everyone SHOULD have to start out with a 50-55 gallon as a beginner SW aquarist.
I just wanted to get this off my chest because it has been on my mind since last night.
I have visited a couple of pet shops (not the big box types) that carried both freshwater & marine fishes and asked if it's possible to do SW with smaller tanks whether it's 28, 30, 36, or 40 gallons and say it's possible with the right set-ups, the minimal amount of fish in tank recommended, and the dilligient maintenance, feeding, and so on. If I have offended you Reefneck, I'm sorry. I'm sorry if I have started off on a bad way not only to you but to others as well that they have the experience with SW tanks.

[Zoe]

I'm starting to understand why Reefneck gets so frustrated.

Let me ask you one more question - what are your thoughts on either 36 gallon or a 40 gallon tank ? With the idea everybody SHOULD start with a 50 - 55 gallon tank is abit of a reach in cost to equip it and and live rock / live sand. The other reason why some people don't want to go 50 - 55 gallons is simply the lack of space due to the actual size of the tank to display it.

You're missing the point, here. If you can't accomodate a large enough tank due to room and money constraints, then you have no business getting a marine. It's the same thing with kids and pets. If you can't get outside every day to walk your huge german sheppard, DON'T get one. If don't make enough money to feed yourself, DON'T go having kids. Know what I mean? If YOU want to be broke and cramped that's different, obviously. But why risk fishies lives because you can't afford another 10-20 lbs of live rock and a large tank and few more square feet of space?

I have visited a couple of pet shops (not the big box types) that carried both freshwater & marine fishes and asked if it's possible to do SW with smaller tanks whether it's 28, 30, 36, or 40 gallons and say it's possible with the right set-ups, the minimal amount of fish in tank recommended, and the dilligient maintenance, feeding, and so on.

Well, of course. Anything is possible with enough diligence and perfect maintenance. And a sump or a refugium. And the right equipment... But will you succeed? That's debateable...
But anyway, yes, of course a pet store will tell you that...

Edit: gramaaaaar mistaaake

[Reefneck]

Can't think of anything I need to add to that Zoe.....Well put!

[CollegeReefer]

Ice, If you want to find suport for a tank less then 50 gals go too http://www.nano-reef.com That is where i started. The whole site is dedicated to nano tanks. You will find many expereinced posters on that site who have nothing but sucess with there nano. I actually got all of my coral frags from a members 10 gallon tank that has been up and running for 2 years with no fish loss or coral loss.

Zachary
24 gallon reef

[Fishfirst]

Note: www.nano-reefs.com also has a lot of people who have failed doing nano tanks. As well as done some unethical things in my book... sign up at your own risk.

[CollegeReefer]

Yes there are lots of people who do nano's and have them fail. Like it has been said on this thread and other threads by reefneck and others, a nano is a lot more work then a bigger tank. You have to take it very slow. You have to be careful what you add. You have to plan on doing weekly water changes. You also have to test the water parm. a lot more then you would on a lager tank. You have to watch the temp a lot closer because there is less volume which means that it can change the much quicker. This means you will have to have fans on the tank if it is warm out. You may even have to invest in a chiller for the tank as well. I know after this winter i will be installing nano-tuners ICA chiller in my nano. As for the unethical part i am not exactly sure what fishfirst is refering too. There are those on there who put fish in way to small of tanks, who over stock there tank, and use damsels to cycle there tank. I find this too be unethical, but no matter how often you say something to them they don't really care and keep adding fish. But there are also those who are really caring about the fish health and will get on the case of anyone who does those things. I am not saying you need to take everything they say to heart. I am just trying to point you in the right dirrection if you do start your 28 gallon, which too me seems like the route you are still going to go. There is a lot of good information on that site to help you have a succefull tank.

[Ice]

Don't get me wrong - I understand his frustration getting thru me and everyone who wants to get into marine fish using smaller tank. Now I'm just about fed up with the notion that it's best to start with larger tank and I respect that. I guess it's up to me to try and succeed (or fail) at keeping a marine fish aquarium. Who knows what will happen. Until then, I will let this topic rest and keep my insanity from getting out of control. I appreciate the advice and suggestions by all. Apologies to Reefneck for the aggitation I may have caused in this forum topic.

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Ice

Don't get me wrong - I understand his frustration getting thru me and everyone who wants to get into marine fish using smaller tank. Now I'm just about fed up with the notion that it's best to start with larger tank and I respect that..

What I don't understand is that you seem to know it's best to go with a larger tank, and yet you choose not to, and your reason is that you don't have enough money or space. That's not an acceptable reason to jeopardise your fish. It's up to you to succeed or fail, but guess who gets flushed down the toilet if it's the latter?

I wish you all the best in setting up a good, healthy tank. We all do I'm sure. I just don't think your reason is valid. If you don't have the money, sell your 30gal, save your pennies and buy a 55gal. Save some more and you can afford more live rock... Why make your life and those of your future fish much more difficult, because you don't want to invest more into you tank?

Zoe

[Dr_House]

What this seems to boil down to is how much effort a person is willing to expend on something. It is indisputable that the likelyhood of failure is far greater in a smaller tank. However, there is more than a smattering of people who have failed with larger aquaria. All you need to do is look at the classified ads in your local newspaper to find scads of people who are selling off their 100+ gallon aquaria because they didn't work out.

It is my opinion that nano tanks should be placed in the "advanced aquarist only" section along with Arowana, Bala Sharks, etc. If an experienced and dedicated fish-keeper is interested in a nano-tank, and is willing to meet the rigorous demands of owning such a system, I give them a big thumbs up.

[TheOldSalt]

Well, I guess there's nothing more to add, really. Things got a lot less friendly in this thread than FishForums is supposed to be, but I suppose what's done is done.
Ice, I hope you have gotten the message, despite the messengers. Small saltwater tanks are certainly doable, but very poor choices for beginners. There is precious little room for error in a small saltwater tank, and beginners make LOTS of mistakes virtually guaranteed to wipe out everything in a small tank. ( while everything could have survived in a bigger one )

If you aren't the type to just jump into things, but will instead study, study, study and plan first, then there's no reason that you can't succeeed with only a few small complications along the way. If you can absolutely learn the "why" behind every "what" before you start, then you can do just fine. Just slap something together and hope for the best, though, and hope will be something you'll soon be without...

Good luck! Try not to need it.

[harif87]

I just want to point out something that may or may not seem obvious to you but, if you plan on keeping a nano-tank, make sure to keep in mind that altough the efforts you might be willing to supply the project with may be endless the fish-corals-inverts etc arent. The ocean is limited and it has to keep up with us people who are taking its "inventory" at a rapid rate. The one reason why i wouldnt reccommend going small, to a person who isnt that experienced, is not because your efforts might be wasted but rather because the oceans supply will be wasted. Im not at all saying this from a humanitarian aspect that would be based on the harming of animals but i am speaking from a conservationist point of view. If we have multiple failed attempts in keeping these fish then we're wasting the beautiful stock that the world has to offer us, and if we keep up our habits one day the world wont be able to offer the same things as it used to. So please please make sure you know what your doing.

[Fishfirst]

On that note, which is a very important point, I feel I have to close this thread to impeed on any personal attacks that either already have been made or are going to be made.

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by Fishfirst

On that note, which is a very important point, I feel I have to close this thread to impeed on any personal attacks that either already have been made or are going to be made.

I don't agree This particular threat has been curt, honest and stubborn, but not rude, no personal attacks and I really think that even though we all may not say things the best way, that we have good intentions (whether that be to try to make a small tank function through hard work, or to try to disuade someone from wasting life / money / time on something that may or may not succeed).

Anyway, if everyone took a spite to everyone who didn't share their opinions, no one would be civil to anybody.

Zoe

[Fishfirst]

This thread is closed. refrain from posting... (technical difficulties on my end here)

[Reefneck]

There has been no reason posted to close this thread! There has been no personal attacks! I think everyone got the point across well.

Now if all this info is wasted when the next person reading it can't ask a question about it then why are we here?

[Ice]

No personal attacks at all directed at me or anyone. I certainly don't think things got unfriendly at all. Just some good old fashioned advicbeing exchanged. No hard feelings here with me.

[Fishfirst]

Well then I guess I'm wrong... continue your convo... thanks for being a sport everyone!

[TheOldSalt]

Right then, carry on...but we're watching youse guys!

I would suggest steering the conversation toward methods for making small tanks actually work, but I don't want to encourage smalltanking, either. Do what you will.