new to saltwater

[nickyp91180]

hi i am starting up a new 40gal satwater tank, i was reading about cycling it, how do you start this? can i use a filter pad from my freshwater tank, to start this? i don't plan on getting any fish untill the cycle is finished.

nick

[Gump]

Use live rock, live sand, fish, chemical cycle starter. dont use your fw pads.

[Reefneck]

Oh jeez. Please, PLEASE read some books about marine aquaria before you just jump in and start one.

40G is really too small to do saltwater if you have no saltwater experience. This is why so many people get out of marine aquarium keeping shortly after they start. They don't read, they start too small and they throw away a lot of money because they didn't study before they tried it!

Then they go tell others how hard it is to keep a marine tank and scares them away from it.

(Sigh)

[Puffer Pita]

I highly recommend you pick up The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner and read it before you do anything. Its relatively inexpensive and can save you a whole lot of heartache and money in the long run. Then read a few more books and websites, ask SW people here about things, and only THEN will you be prepared to think about starting one IMO.

[harif87]

What everyone said above is true. You should do some reading about SW keeping before going into it. I mean after all keeping SW is a big investment and by reading and learning more before you start helps you protect your investment.

Also adding any bacteria from a FW tank wont do much good since the bacteria will shrivel up from water leaving the cells. This happens because the FW bacteria cant live in the hypotonic solution (the SW) due to the fact that the water has salt in it which causes water to be extracted from the bacteria cells causing it to shrivel and die. Its best to add live rock and live sand as means to get your SW aquarium cycled.

[CollegeReefer]

From what your post says, I can tell you really haven't read up on keeping a saltwater tank. I read up on keeping saltwater for months before i started my tank and i still read up on them today. So the first thing you need to do is read. Once you do that and have anymore question feel free to ask. As for what Gump said, all you need to cycle the tank is Live Rock and Live Sand. Actually you don't even need Live sand for the Rock will see the substarte you choose. I don't agree will using fish for cycling. It is really curl and not needed. If you are using Live rock that is the only thing you need. Some like to jump start the cycling process by using a peice of raw shrimp from the market. I will also have to disagree with reefneck about the 40 being too small. Yes the larger the tank, the easier it is to take care of, but i feel if you read up on saltwater keeping enough you will do great with your 40 gallon. My first tank was a 20 gallon. Anyways, please do some reading though before starting otherwise you will spend lots of money and get nowhere. Search this forum. About.com also has some great articles on keeping a saltwater tank. Nano-reefs.com is another great forum to use as a reseorce. Hopefully this helps a little bit.

Zachary

[harif87]

^^^^About.com has an amazing library of articles to start with! Stan and Debbie Hauter are the best!! But start off with them and expand on the things you didnt quite understand. Search on ask.com or go to the non-fiction section of the nearest public library. Trust me the stuff youll be reading is extensive but far from boring.

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by CollegeReefer

I will also have to disagree with reefneck about the 40 being too small. Yes the larger the tank, the easier it is to take care of, but i feel if you read up on saltwater keeping enough you will do great with your 40 gallon. My first tank was a 20 gallon.

This is NOT good advice! It is not me you are choosing to disagree with, It is the majority of the experts in marine aquaria! Some people can read for their entire lives and never get the concept of small mistake = big consequences in a small tank. By advising someone that they can do it just by reading you are way off base unless you know the person well.

The experts are the ones that advise no less than 50 gallons for a beginner to start with. Even some experienced aquarists have trouble keeping small tanks successfully. So please, Do not tell people they can do something unless you know the person and are 100% sure they can. Reading does not provide all the things you need to know to keep a small marine tank successfully and sometimes, for some people, even doing it proves too much.

[nickyp91180]

thank you for all the input. I don't plan on puting the whole sea in there. I just want two fish, some live rock and a few hermit crabs.

Originally Posted by Reefneck

Oh jeez. Please, PLEASE read some books about marine aquaria before you just jump in and start one.

40G is really too small to do saltwater if you have no saltwater experience. This is why so many people get out of marine aquarium keeping shortly after they start. They don't read, they start too small and they throw away a lot of money because they didn't study before they tried it!

Then they go tell others how hard it is to keep a marine tank and scares them away from it.

(Sigh)

I don't intend to put any thing in there untill it has finished cycling in that time I will be reading alot about ST. ( I don't intend to torment any living thing) I love fish and the sea. please don't think i am a moron. the one thing reefneck that bugs me is that i asked a few questions and you bit my head of please don't. my intentions are good.

nick

[Fishfirst]

Sorry if we might have scared you off there. Talking about living rocks and living sand, how your tank might be too small, look up information here, look up information there.



STOP.


BREATH.



Okay, the first thing I would do is A) get your tank rolling. Start by adding substrate to the tank, something like argonite sand would be good maybe start with 1-2" which would be around 30-40lbs of sand. Add your salt water and get it to the right specific gravity. Have some powerheads and your choice of filter running (I suggest a protien skimmer like the Coralife Super Skimmer rated for 65 gallons) Wait a day, then add some liverock and letting the tank cycle.

Now, read. I'd read the suggested, especially the book by Fenner (btw, for now you can skip the whole calcium reator part you won't need that at this point in time and it can be quite confusing) Also www.wetwebmedia.com has some great articles on starting a saltwater tank. Write down questions as you go.

Once you've gotten through that and your cycle is almost complete, come here with those questions.

[Fishfirst]

By the way... 40 gallons is not a bad tank size... you just have to be a bit more patient, as well as a bit more keen on changes in chemistry. Also, look into sumps to increase your water volume... they can be a real asset without taking up that extra room.

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by nickyp91180

please don't think i am a moron. the one thing reefneck that bugs me is that i asked a few questions and you bit my head of please don't. my intentions are good.

nick

Ummmm, No. I think if you re read what I typed you won't find many references to "You" and what "You" are doing. You will find many references to "they" and what "they" have done meaning why so many people are afraid of this hobby.

Don't be so quick to accuse me or anyone else of biting your head off when I never once said anything about what you have done. I just get tired of people jumping into this with a tank thats too small, no experience, no reading and no time to mainatin it. Then they (See the they again) tell all their friends how hard it is to keep a marine tank.

I have not bit your head off yet. Don't accuse people lest they might.

So many people do not know how to read typed words without getting offended by them.

[nickyp91180]

thank you so much fishfirst, for your info and not talking down to me i will do just that right now i have the tank set up and runing i have about 2" of substance in there and the SP is at 1.020. it has been up for a day now and will be ready in about 1 1/2 months i hope if not i can wait.

nick

[Fishfirst]

looks like you've got one part done already. One thing I'd like to say is your specific gravity is a bit low. I'd raise it to 1.023-1.024, natural sea water is 1.026. Although hydrometers can vary a bit, so if your lfs has a refractometer you can bring in some water to compare readings with yours periodically to check if its running true.

Cycling doesn't tank too long when you add liverock. Check your ammonia and nitrite and nitrates once you get that in your tank. once the ammonia and nitrite is at 0 and there are some nitrates in your tank, you can begin to add to your stock... maybe some inverts or a fish.

[nickyp91180]

the reading is from hydrometer. now the one thing i am not sure of is that i have read a few things about live rock that you need 1Lb for every gal of water and an other place said 1.4lb for every gal. how much do i need?

nick

[Reefneck]

And I don't just yank my statements out of the air. I really am trying to help prevent someone getting frustrated with too small a tank and leaving the hobby or bad mouthing it!

This is one of MANY sites that back up what I suggest.

http://www.saltwater-fish-tanks.com/...r-aquarium.php

Coupled with the fact that I have been doing this a while and have a store that sells both FW & SW fish and equipment I didn't just get off the boat yeasterday.

[Fishfirst]

actually its highly dependent on how much rock YOU want, as well as how dense the rock is. Dense rock means you need a lot more to do the job vs porus rock means you need a lot less. Generallys 1-2 lbs per gallon is fine...
Rock is a very good way of filtering your tank by the way, so the more that you can get the better in my opinion.

[CollegeReefer]

reefneck,

I know what the experts say about tank size. Trust me i read a lot about the min. size you need for a tank. But at the same time i have read a lot of "experts" saying that you can have a succesfull tank that is under that mark too. The 50 gallon or higher is what i and others call the "old school" train of thought, where the "new school" train of thought is that bigger is not always better. The hobby has changed so much over the years. There was a time when everyone thought bristle warms where so bad for a tank, and today that really just isn't the case anymore. That is just one exsample. I would write more but i have to run to class.

Zachary

[Fishfirst]

lol you gettin' too much info from Nano-reefs.com, callin us old school

bigger is ALWAYS better, but if you can't afford it, or don't have the space, or some other reason, a smaller tank will suffice.

[Jonno]

hehehe , well i always thought that bigger was better for a beginner so i guess i'm old school??

Anyway nicky i think most people have suggested the things i would of said to do, but if you have a spare 10 mins you should check out some of the journals on this board because there are a few really intresting ones regarding setting up a marine tank.