New thread on small Marine tanks soon...

[Reefneck]

If certain people can keep it civil and ON topic I will start a new thread about the small marine aquarium as soon as I am feeling up to it. I am currently in the hospital and just had Chemotharapy today. I have my laptop but it is only on dialup in here.

Thanks to all of you that posted in my thread with solid discussions and I hope you will join the new one when I can get to it.

[Ice]

Sorry to hear you're in hospital. Hope things go well for you. Get with new thread when you can.

[Zoe]

Is there really anything left to be said?
Small tanks are ill-advised, they're tough to maintain and they fail often. Bigger is better. But people will want to try small tanks. Not much you can do except try to disuade them, and help them if you can if they refuse to go with a bigger tank.

[Damon]

There is still plenty of aspects to talk about.
The fact of the matter is people will still try smaller tanks depsite the chance of success.
That being said we can only inform them on the challenges that will await. The possible problems that will occur and what extra steps need to be taken. If a person has their mind set on a small tank, I believe we owe it to the livestock involved to give them the best possible chance of success.

[Zoe]

Oh, I agree. But there are forums for that. This particular forum seems to have a hard time not taking it personally when someone doesn't agree with their pro- or anti-nano opinions.

I guess I'm of the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" school, and maybe I'm just being pesimistic But based on what I've already seen, I can't imagine this thread going anywhere but downhill.

But, my negativity aside, let's have it. Can I start? hehe.

I was a meeting of my local aquarists club here in Ottawa on Monday, and part of the presentation was how to set up a small (2gallon) nano/pico tank. It really simplified the whole thing for me. The whole presention was done by a man with many marine tanks, but not a purist, shall we say. He doesn't use skimmers, he doesn't have ultra expensive lighting, he doesn't obsess over the smallest details. On the other hand, he only keep what he knows will survive. He's fully aware that in any given tank of his, certain corals just won't thrive with the lighting he has, for example.

Anyway, all this to say that he kind of "threw" together a nano tank. He started with a few inches of live sand, a hunk of live rock with a coral of some sort on it (it was purple, anyway). He added water from one of his tanks, put on a HOB filter (with no filter media), and a light (a regular, curled-up fluorescent bulb).

So, it all seemed pretty simple. Probably would cost about 40$ to set up. But what strikes is that you can't put any fish in there. You can maintain an easy coral or two, and a few small inverts. In fact, it seemed to easy that I'd love to try it, and but for lack of room, I probably wood.

Anyway, what I gathered from his presentation was, don't keep what you know won't thrive in whatever tank you have. If you have a 5 gallon nano, don't get a fish for it. It shall not thrive.

Anyhoo, that's what I brought back from his presentation. I hope I don't have a backwards idea

[Damon]

Well said. The problem arises when someone starts a 10 gallon "reef" tank and wants an anemone, some crabs, shrimp, a pair of clowns, and inevitable "ooh I want a tang" or "that riccordia is neat! I want some!" Then they get the bad news but does that stop them? Nope. And the animals die.....

The main reason for me recommending larger tanks is not just for stability, but the average person always wants more. And will try to make it work when it really just cant. They start small with good intentions but in the end end up upset when they cant get what they want. I just got into this side of aquariums after 16+ years of fw experience and hundreds of species of fish. I still give way to experienced sw keepers because odds are they have seen or done what I am trying to do. I can also see why getting asked the same questions a thousand times but never get listened to can be frustrating. Its easier on both sides to start big and save the hassle. This will prevent the most upsetting aspect of the hobby explosion. Death to marine animals who are in short supply already.

[flamingo]

Reefneck, i'd be happy to post what I think if you started another thread about this. As long as it stays decent, there are rules to posting, i'll stay. Honestly, I think there should be a sticky thread with stuff like this..people can read however many views there are..and go off of that rather than taking the advice on just one person.

I have a lot to say, and i'd be happy to type if it has some use, but if it's another 5 page argument, etc. i'm not even going to take a second look. Everyone lately (and me at times) will start a flamming fight or argument whenever they get the chance. Not one thread seems to be just helpful info..but people trying to contradict someone elses post.

IMHO small tanks aren't the worst, etc. as long as you know what can happen to begin with. Bigger is better in the long run, but that's all i'm going to say in here. The problem is most people that want a small tank, just go around and get a few pieces of info and think they can handle it. I started with a ten gallon, but only after I exhausted my brain by researching .

[Jojo]

I would like another thread started up because I like to quitely observe and read. Mostly because I'm planning on starting a 30g SW tank sometime next year(and after I get a job). I already know I want a Clown and maybe a flame angel(if he would be ok in a 30g).

[Damon]

I could bring it to my fellow mods to open the old thread up after some editing was done to it for obvious reasons.

[Bear]

It would be very interesting to read what everyone here feels about a nano tank.

It would also be interesting to read how each person would recommend setting up such a tank.

Just starting out in SW I have noticed a large change in attitudes from my FW to my new SW peers. I consider myself a student, as all of us should, and look forward to new threads such as these that could possibly shed light on new issues (nano tanks). Perhaps by the end of this there could be an agreement.

As far as my 2 cents are worth, which I am sure is not far just yet, I feel that small tanks are only a bad idea in the hands of the less experienced. Once I have had my 40 gallon running for a while I plan to go bigger because of the aforementioned desire for more critters, but I have other plans. I plan to go smaller, perhaps a 10g or 15. As of now If I were to try this I would fail, but from threads like this and much more research and learning experiences from the first 2 tanks, I should find myself successful.

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by flamingo

IMHO small tanks aren't the worst, etc. as long as you know what can happen to begin with. Bigger is better in the long run, but that's all i'm going to say in here. The problem is most people that want a small tank, just go around and get a few pieces of info and think they can handle it. I started with a ten gallon, but only after I exhausted my brain by researching .

I should have been more descriptive with my title!

I have never said nor thought that small tanks are impossible or wrong to have! What I HAVE said is that beginners that have never done marine tanks before have no idea the problems they face and should not mess with anything under 50G's!

A Beginner can not possibly learn enough by reading to start a Nano/Pico tank as his/her first tank and not cause loss of life.

[Bear]

I am sure that when I made my last post I was far too tired to be posting.

But what ReefNeck Just posted was my intention...kinda

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by Bear

But what ReefNeck Just posted was my intention...kinda

lol

[TheOldSalt]

Bear, I think you've pegged it perfectly.

Nanos are most commonly attemped by the VERY people who have absolutely no business trying such a thing, and they get predictable results. A complete waste.

Nanos are fine if the keeper is willing to strictly adhere to the "rules," but as Damon alreay mentioned, that's a lot easier said than done for an experienced keeper, and beginners don't even KNOW the rules.

Highly experienced keepers can look at their tanks and know everything about them in an instant. Beginners... not so much. They won't know when something is amiss, and they won't really know ahead of time just what they'll have to be even watching for, let alone what to do to prevent problems or correct them.

Personally, I think that Nanos are simply a stupid idea from the word go. However, I can cartainly see their appeal to those who don't know better, and even to some who do.

[Bear]

i know better, but I still would love to have one some time in the near future...

[vvolfe1]

Here is my 2 cents worth. Small tanks can be done. I could see someone doing one for like a species specific tank. May seahorses, pipefish, a frag tank, or maybe a breeder tank would be good. As far as a reef tank or a multi species tank no way. It can be done but why? The options would be so limited in live stock and the amount of work to maintain it would be more than it is worth.

[Damon]

I originally started sw research about 6-7months ago. After many, many pm's with T.O.S. on the undertaking of a 20 high for my first tank, I decided against it. I decided, knowing how I am (and most others are) that I would not be content with a tank that size. Add onto that my general lack of info and experience in sw I decided to save up and start right. I started my 55 and soon upgraded to 75. I'm still not happy with the size as many of the critters I want to keep can be had, but no together due to space (many anenomes get large). If I had tried in a 20 gallon, I would not only have be unhappy with the stocking limitations, I would have most likely mixed species that cannot survive in the limited space. I always want more and in a 20 that just is not possible.