I have succomb to the power of salt...

IloveCichlids · 11-06-2006, 05:15 PM

I have decided to make the empty 55 I have to a FOWLR setup that will eventually turn to a reef in the distant future. I am in the beginning stages of reading and studying up on marine setups. I have looked at a lot of articles on Wet Web Media. There is a lot of info.

It sounds to me as if a sump is the best option for filtration along with the live rock. A coworker has an extra sump I think he is going to sell to me. What is a good size or my 55? I will be getting a Aqua C Remora skimmer for the setup. I also have 2 powerheads currently not in use to use for this tank. I need to get an overflow and have the tank drilled for use of the overflow.

The tank I have already has silica sand with crushed coral mixed with it for my Tangs. The tangs are going downstairs to my bar area, and I will just put new silica sand in that tank to make it easier. How do I make the existing substrate "live" or is this just the wrong way to go?

I plan on putting about 50lbs of LR in the tank. From what I have read that should be enough. Are there different types of LR? I have not ot that far yet.

I have not any clue about stocking yet, I do know that I like the looks of Maroon clowns and know that they are pretty aggressive. Other than that I have no clue yet.

It is going to be a while before I get this thing setup as I have alot of reading to do and a lot of questions to ask as well as gather material and supplies.

Any comments and/or criticisms will be greatly appreciatted in my journeys throuh the marine world.

Wish me luck!

**Fishfirst** · 11-06-2006, 05:29 PM

skip the silica sand... and make it argonite sand... this will buffer the water a bit better.

IloveCichlids · 11-06-2006, 05:44 PM

I just ordered the Concientious Marine Aquariast by Robert Fenner and Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies. Should be here in a couple days.

**Fishfirst** · 11-06-2006, 06:19 PM

nice choice with Fenners book... a good read and a good guy.

harif87 · 11-06-2006, 06:50 PM

I would say to go for a 20 or 15 gal sump.

You dont need to have your tank drilled to have an overflow, all you need is an overflow box. Itll probably cost you more money to have it drilled than it is to buy an overflow.

Substrate should be Aragonite sand...looks good and is better for the aquarim. What makes it "live" is the organisms living in the sand, such as pods, bacteria, even tiny sea stars etc. To have it live youll need to either purchase live sand from a trusted dealer or seed your tank with a small batch of anothers sand. The organisms will multiply givin the right conditions and your whole sandbed will eventually be filled with them.

There are different types of live rock. A very common type is that from the Fiji Islands. Its pretty porus which allows for more life to live on it. Generally the more porus the rock the less youll need. The more dense the rock the more youll need.With a more porus rock youll typically need from 3/4 - 1.5 pounds per gallon and with more dense rock youll typically need from 1.5 - 2 pounds of rock per gallon. Nothing is exact so try and use your judgement.

IloveCichlids · 11-06-2006, 09:01 PM

I have read that I will need a 2-3" sand bed in the tank.

Just curious, if I "seed" the silica sand that has crushed corl in it will it become "live"?

IloveCichlids · 11-06-2006, 09:04 PM

I am not sure if it is clear in the post above. The new silica sand would go in the empty tank for the Tangs. I would keep the existing silica with crushed coral in it for the marine set-up. I am moving the Tangs to the empty tank in the basement and using the one they are in upstairs for the marine.

harif87 · 11-06-2006, 09:29 PM

The sandbed depth is your prefrence. There are benefits to having a deep sand bed. Here are some explinations of the benefits and disadvanatges of having a plenum or DSB.
http://www.3reef.com/modules.php?nam...tarticle&id=11

http://www.reef-aquarium.net/resourc...trate/dsb.html

Reefneck · 11-07-2006, 04:46 AM

Silica Sand New or old is going to become food for algae blooms. Go with aragonite as stated above.

flamingo · 11-07-2006, 04:59 AM

Definitely skip the silica sand...I despise that stuff...

Also, instead of buying another source of live sand like mentioned, leave it up to the live rock. Not only will it save money, but extra live sand isnt needed. Live rock has pretty much everything that will colonate your sand, and most live sand packages are just either wetted to appear established...or simply sand in a seperate tank with bacteria...and hardly any "critters".

Sump- I've seen a lot of places suggesting half the of the show tank size, 30 gallons would be a good thing to get. Of course though, the bigger the better.

Live rock, 1-1.5 pounds per gallon, but of course, after that it's all up to you. The more you have equals more bacteria surface, but less water volume and space for your fish to move! (water volume isn't the biggest issue, not like your going to have 300 pounds of live rock and a gallon of water though :P ).

IloveCichlids · 11-07-2006, 07:07 AM

Thanks for the advice! I will move the silica sand out to the other tank for the Tangs and invest in some aragonite. I will find out today what size sump my co-worker has.

I started looking at livestock last night to get an idea of what I wanted to start with.
Maroon clown
Flame Angelfish
neon blue goby's
yellow watchman goby
A shrimp or two (can you have more than one, or will they clash with each other)
I have also looked at some cleaning "packs" (I have only looked at Foster and Smith's catalog to get ideas so far. I am also going to stop by my LFS tonight to se what is in stock in this area.

Thanks for all of your help so far, I look forward to getting my books and start reading.

**Damon** · 11-07-2006, 07:27 AM

For seeding the sand, the liverock will do this for you. I also recommend buying a lb of live sand from a lfs. Helps speed up the process and doesn't cost much.

**Fishfirst** · 11-07-2006, 11:53 AM

As far as stocking goes... a juvi maroon clown may look and act cute, but will rule the tank when it grows up... infact I don't trust em with smaller fish either... seems to me that they would take advantage of that.

IloveCichlids · 11-07-2006, 01:59 PM

Ya' I saw that they were pretty aggressive. Maybe I can just go with the regular ones instead.

Ice · 11-08-2006, 08:31 AM

Only cleaner shrimps and peepermint shrimp you can more than one of. Banded Coral Shrimps are best kept by themselves unless it's a mated pair.

IloveCichlids · 11-10-2006, 05:43 PM

I ordered (won the auction) from E-bay...
a protien skimmer and new submersable heater for the tank.
I am still waiting for the sump from the guy at work so I can see what is with it and what I will have to buy. I am looking for the overflow box. my next stop while I am on is Foster and Smiths to take a look at some. Does anyone have a good place to go?

harif87 · 11-11-2006, 05:15 PM

Your local aquarium society.

IloveCichlids · 11-17-2006, 12:26 PM

I have the protein skimmer and heater. I am now looking for an overflow box (any suggestions) and looking at RO/DI units.

I have some questions or curiosities about how all of you have your set-ups. I was thinking a grey 55 gal. trash can the unit would drain into with a float to shut the unit off. Then a hose that was attatched to the bottom (sealed and leak free of course) with a ball valve of some sort so when the ball valve was open the gravity of the water will fill up my buckets. (what do you think?)

11-06-2006, 05:15 PM	#1
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I have succomb to the power of salt... I have decided to make the empty 55 I have to a FOWLR setup that will eventually turn to a reef in the distant future. I am in the beginning stages of reading and studying up on marine setups. I have looked at a lot of articles on Wet Web Media. There is a lot of info. It sounds to me as if a sump is the best option for filtration along with the live rock. A coworker has an extra sump I think he is going to sell to me. What is a good size or my 55? I will be getting a Aqua C Remora skimmer for the setup. I also have 2 powerheads currently not in use to use for this tank. I need to get an overflow and have the tank drilled for use of the overflow. The tank I have already has silica sand with crushed coral mixed with it for my Tangs. The tangs are going downstairs to my bar area, and I will just put new silica sand in that tank to make it easier. How do I make the existing substrate "live" or is this just the wrong way to go? I plan on putting about 50lbs of LR in the tank. From what I have read that should be enough. Are there different types of LR? I have not ot that far yet. I have not any clue about stocking yet, I do know that I like the looks of Maroon clowns and know that they are pretty aggressive. Other than that I have no clue yet. It is going to be a while before I get this thing setup as I have alot of reading to do and a lot of questions to ask as well as gather material and supplies. Any comments and/or criticisms will be greatly appreciatted in my journeys throuh the marine world. Wish me luck! __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-06-2006, 05:29 PM	#2
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,501 User Feedback: (1)	skip the silica sand... and make it argonite sand... this will buffer the water a bit better. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-06-2006, 05:44 PM	#3
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I just ordered the Concientious Marine Aquariast by Robert Fenner and Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies. Should be here in a couple days. __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-06-2006, 06:19 PM	#4
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,501 User Feedback: (1)	nice choice with Fenners book... a good read and a good guy. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-06-2006, 06:50 PM	#5
harif87 Minor Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 21 Posts: 990 User Feedback: (1)	I would say to go for a 20 or 15 gal sump. You dont need to have your tank drilled to have an overflow, all you need is an overflow box. Itll probably cost you more money to have it drilled than it is to buy an overflow. Substrate should be Aragonite sand...looks good and is better for the aquarim. What makes it "live" is the organisms living in the sand, such as pods, bacteria, even tiny sea stars etc. To have it live youll need to either purchase live sand from a trusted dealer or seed your tank with a small batch of anothers sand. The organisms will multiply givin the right conditions and your whole sandbed will eventually be filled with them. There are different types of live rock. A very common type is that from the Fiji Islands. Its pretty porus which allows for more life to live on it. Generally the more porus the rock the less youll need. The more dense the rock the more youll need.With a more porus rock youll typically need from 3/4 - 1.5 pounds per gallon and with more dense rock youll typically need from 1.5 - 2 pounds of rock per gallon. Nothing is exact so try and use your judgement. __________________ sorry for beating you senseless "The human torch was denied a bank loan"

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11-06-2006, 09:01 PM	#6
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I have read that I will need a 2-3" sand bed in the tank. Just curious, if I "seed" the silica sand that has crushed corl in it will it become "live"? __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-06-2006, 09:04 PM	#7
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I am not sure if it is clear in the post above. The new silica sand would go in the empty tank for the Tangs. I would keep the existing silica with crushed coral in it for the marine set-up. I am moving the Tangs to the empty tank in the basement and using the one they are in upstairs for the marine. __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-06-2006, 09:29 PM	#8
harif87 Minor Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 21 Posts: 990 User Feedback: (1)	The sandbed depth is your prefrence. There are benefits to having a deep sand bed. Here are some explinations of the benefits and disadvanatges of having a plenum or DSB. http://www.3reef.com/modules.php?nam...tarticle&id=11 http://www.reef-aquarium.net/resourc...trate/dsb.html __________________ sorry for beating you senseless "The human torch was denied a bank loan"

11-07-2006, 04:46 AM	#9
Reefneck Senior Aquarist Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Near a Coral Reef Age: 46 Posts: 1,351 User Feedback: (0)	Silica Sand New or old is going to become food for algae blooms. Go with aragonite as stated above. __________________ I wonder how much salt mix I would need to turn our in ground pool into a Reef.

11-07-2006, 04:59 AM	#10
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,897 User Feedback: (2)	Definitely skip the silica sand...I despise that stuff... Also, instead of buying another source of live sand like mentioned, leave it up to the live rock. Not only will it save money, but extra live sand isnt needed. Live rock has pretty much everything that will colonate your sand, and most live sand packages are just either wetted to appear established...or simply sand in a seperate tank with bacteria...and hardly any "critters". Sump- I've seen a lot of places suggesting half the of the show tank size, 30 gallons would be a good thing to get. Of course though, the bigger the better. Live rock, 1-1.5 pounds per gallon, but of course, after that it's all up to you. The more you have equals more bacteria surface, but less water volume and space for your fish to move! (water volume isn't the biggest issue, not like your going to have 300 pounds of live rock and a gallon of water though :P ). __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

11-07-2006, 07:07 AM	#11
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	Thanks for the advice! I will move the silica sand out to the other tank for the Tangs and invest in some aragonite. I will find out today what size sump my co-worker has. I started looking at livestock last night to get an idea of what I wanted to start with. Maroon clown Flame Angelfish neon blue goby's yellow watchman goby A shrimp or two (can you have more than one, or will they clash with each other) I have also looked at some cleaning "packs" (I have only looked at Foster and Smith's catalog to get ideas so far. I am also going to stop by my LFS tonight to se what is in stock in this area. Thanks for all of your help so far, I look forward to getting my books and start reading. __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-07-2006, 07:27 AM	#12
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982 User Feedback: (0)	For seeding the sand, the liverock will do this for you. I also recommend buying a lb of live sand from a lfs. Helps speed up the process and doesn't cost much. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

11-07-2006, 11:53 AM	#13
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,501 User Feedback: (1)	As far as stocking goes... a juvi maroon clown may look and act cute, but will rule the tank when it grows up... infact I don't trust em with smaller fish either... seems to me that they would take advantage of that. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-07-2006, 01:59 PM	#14
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	Ya' I saw that they were pretty aggressive. Maybe I can just go with the regular ones instead. __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-08-2006, 08:31 AM	#15
Ice Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 43 Posts: 520 User Feedback: (0)	Only cleaner shrimps and peepermint shrimp you can more than one of. Banded Coral Shrimps are best kept by themselves unless it's a mated pair.

11-10-2006, 05:43 PM	#16
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I ordered (won the auction) from E-bay... a protien skimmer and new submersable heater for the tank. I am still waiting for the sump from the guy at work so I can see what is with it and what I will have to buy. I am looking for the overflow box. my next stop while I am on is Foster and Smiths to take a look at some. Does anyone have a good place to go? __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

11-11-2006, 05:15 PM	#17
harif87 Minor Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 21 Posts: 990 User Feedback: (1)	Your local aquarium society. __________________ sorry for beating you senseless "The human torch was denied a bank loan"

11-17-2006, 12:26 PM	#18
IloveCichlids Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 29 Posts: 456 User Feedback: (0)	I have the protein skimmer and heater. I am now looking for an overflow box (any suggestions) and looking at RO/DI units. I have some questions or curiosities about how all of you have your set-ups. I was thinking a grey 55 gal. trash can the unit would drain into with a float to shut the unit off. Then a hose that was attatched to the bottom (sealed and leak free of course) with a ball valve of some sort so when the ball valve was open the gravity of the water will fill up my buckets. (what do you think?) __________________ When you feel like this... , just watch your fish, & have a tasty beverage (of your choice, I like Kool-Aid)!

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