Need suggestions for my planning

[Fishboy93]

I've done my research and know what I want but have a few questions because of the inconsistancy of the internet. I have a 29 Gallon Aquarium that i want to tear down and create a nice FOWLR then maybe start to add a few simple corals. I also am tearing down my 20L so I can focus on one tank. My dilemna is that there is no way to buy RO water in my area and really dont want to buy distilled water. So I was wondering what your opinion would be. My plan was to use my 20L to hold saltwater that had been treated with seachems prime and then and then have a power filter with a phoszorb and/or activated carbon. Would this work and also would I have to raise this waters pH to match the tank? How would i raise the pH?

Also, I was curious what skimmer you thought would be the best for its price(50-100 dollars).

As for liverock i wanted to have about 40lbs of limestone for base rock and 20lbs of live rock. Is this a smart plan?

So here's the Setup:
29 Gallon:
130W PC Lighting
(?)Blue Legged Hermit Crabs and (?)Cerith or other algae eating snail(Suggestions?)
AC110/500 DIY Refugium
Skimmer
Powerhead(Suggestions?)
Sand Substrate

Fish would be:
Neon Blue Goby(Elacatinus oceanops)
A Pseudochromis Sp. (Suggestions?)
Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
Too much/Too little?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated,
FB93

[flamingo]

I don't use RO water or distilled water in any of my set-ups (except sometimes on my 5 gallon)- not totally needed but your water may have minerals, etc. that can trigger an algae bloom. But, with saying that you may get brown algae, it's commonly replaced by a different type of green algae, or just disappears.

If you have saltwater in a seperate container, you don't need to treat it anything, etc. to raise pH. When you mix salt, it already has buffers and the like- so it comes out around 8.1-8.4. It'll take a few weeks for the pH in that to drop considerably. I wouldn't worry about matching the pH to the tank- it may be slightly off, but if you add slowly it won't matter much.

As for the skimmer, I suggest the coralife needle-wheel skimmer, it runs anywhere from 70-90 dollars depending on who you buy from.

[Fishboy93]

Originally Posted by flamingo

I don't use RO water or distilled water in any of my set-ups (except sometimes on my 5 gallon)- not totally needed but your water may have minerals, etc. that can trigger an algae bloom. But, with saying that you may get brown algae, it's commonly replaced by a different type of green algae, or just disappears.

If you have saltwater in a seperate container, you don't need to treat it anything, etc. to raise pH. When you mix salt, it already has buffers and the like- so it comes out around 8.1-8.4. It'll take a few weeks for the pH in that to drop considerably. I wouldn't worry about matching the pH to the tank- it may be slightly off, but if you add slowly it won't matter much.

As for the skimmer, I suggest the coralife needle-wheel skimmer, it runs anywhere from 70-90 dollars depending on who you buy from.

Ahhhh, i didnt think of the salts affect on the pH.. Thank you for the suggestions. Also, if I go out to a remote area, would it be an alright idea to collect a little sand to jumps start mine with some bacteria/organisms?

[flamingo]

No, you should never take something like that from the wild. Even if it's remote, there are parasites, critters, contaminants, etc. that are living in it. Just start the tank up and add your live rock with an ammonia source (if the rock doesn't have much die off) and it should start cycling by itself.

Plus, i'm not too sure on sand, but it's usually illegal. At least with live rock, etc.

[CollegeReefer]

This is what i would do with a smaller tank. 29 gallon display with an overflow box going down to your 20L converted to a sump. Go with 40-50 pounds of liverock with a 2 inch sand bottom seeded by livesand. Because you are planning on just a FOWLR tank you pcs would be fine. In the sump you can place your skimmer (i am a fan of the coralife needlewheele...best bang for the buck) Your fishlist isn't bad at all. Just remember to go slow.

[Fishboy93]

Originally Posted by CollegeReefer

This is what i would do with a smaller tank. 29 gallon display with an overflow box going down to your 20L converted to a sump. Go with 40-50 pounds of liverock with a 2 inch sand bottom seeded by livesand. Because you are planning on just a FOWLR tank you pcs would be fine. In the sump you can place your skimmer (i am a fan of the coralife needlewheele...best bang for the buck) Your fishlist isn't bad at all. Just remember to go slow.

I want to do that but I am worried because there isn't any space for the tank.. If i switch all my tanks around it might work. I have one of those double 20 gallon long stands, will that work?

[TheOldSalt]

If you use tapwater from florida, and if you put beach sand in the tank, then you will have brown diatoms in your tank forever. In some parts of the country this isn't a problem, but down there it is, especially from coastal towns like yours. Don't believe me? Ask anybody you know locally who has tried it. I've been there and done that, and I was not a happy camper. If you can't spend 17 bucks for distilled water, then you are really heading for a lot of problems with your hobby and your tank. I hate to say it, but it's true; reefkeeping is not cheap, and you will occasionally have problems pop up needing immediate, and pricey, resolution.
Many Gulf Coast towns also put extra chemicals in the water to offset the effects of the nearby seaspray and the Red Tide. When these get into your tank, it will ruin your whole day. Inverts are very sensitive, you know, and algae conversely love the stuff. So, Gulf Coast reeftanks need distilled water, or maybe RO, and beach sand should be avoided for best results.
Can you get away with ignoring this advice and doing it your way anyway? Sure you can. You won't be happy with the results, but you certainly can.

That said, you don't have to do everything just perfectly. You'll ultimately save money and have better success if you do, but you don't. Liverock is expensive, though, so it behooves you to keep it in good shape and not let it get choked out by algae and diatoms. I know i sound like a big meanie, but I really am just trying to save you a ton of hassle and expense.

[Fishboy93]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

If you use tapwater from florida, and if you put beach sand in the tank, then you will have brown diatoms in your tank forever. In some parts of the country this isn't a problem, but down there it is, especially from coastal towns like yours. Don't believe me? Ask anybody you know locally who has tried it. I've been there and done that, and I was not a happy camper. If you can't spend 17 bucks for distilled water, then you are really heading for a lot of problems with your hobby and your tank. I hate to say it, but it's true; reefkeeping is not cheap, and you will occasionally have problems pop up needing immediate, and pricey, resolution.
Many Gulf Coast towns also put extra chemicals in the water to offset the effects of the nearby seaspray and the Red Tide. When these get into your tank, it will ruin your whole day. Inverts are very sensitive, you know, and algae conversely love the stuff. So, Gulf Coast reeftanks need distilled water, or maybe RO, and beach sand should be avoided for best results.
Can you get away with ignoring this advice and doing it your way anyway? Sure you can. You won't be happy with the results, but you certainly can.

That said, you don't have to do everything just perfectly. You'll ultimately save money and have better success if you do, but you don't. Liverock is expensive, though, so it behooves you to keep it in good shape and not let it get choked out by algae and diatoms. I know i sound like a big meanie, but I really am just trying to save you a ton of hassle and expense.

Thanks you very much, I know your not trying to be mean, plus your more experienced than most/all of us here.

After talking with flamingo in the chat I have decided to do a substrate along these lines http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=CS0050, a coralife skimmer, and also I will use my 20L as a sump. Also, I have found and RO Water Dispensor near me.

I was unsure as to your talking about the Live Rock, can limestone still be used for base rock?

[TheOldSalt]

Sure, no problem. You should probably soak it in a bucket of freshwater for a week or two to leach out it's strongest alkaline punch first, though, just to be safe. Nothing like a pH of 9.2 to give you grief when you least expect it.

[Fishboy93]

Okay thank you very much, my next question is regarding the refugium/sump, how strong/what type of return pump would you suggest?

EDIT: Also woult this overflow work?http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod...itemKey=213290

[Osiris]

Personally i used the DIY AC110 refugium that worked out real well and had lots of LR in there, i just kept up on my weekly waterchanges, never had a problem, be sure to top off daily.

But i did have a dolphin return pump when i was setting up the 75g, man that thing was like a hose shooting water out! but with urs mag pump would do prolly a 9.5

[Fishboy93]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Personally i used the DIY AC110 refugium that worked out real well and had lots of LR in there, i just kept up on my weekly waterchanges, never had a problem, be sure to top off daily.

But i did have a dolphin return pump when i was setting up the 75g, man that thing was like a hose shooting water out! but with urs mag pump would do prolly a 9.5

Thanks Osiris, but you im still confused as to the difference between U tube and CPR, U tube is better right? Which type would this be? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0862&rd=1&rd=1

[Fishboy93]

Anyone know? Went to the lfs and they use tap water..

[Fishfirst]

that overflow would probably be overkill.... look for something in the range of 600 - 900 gph

[Damon]

Most salt mixes tell you you can use tap water and some people do. It really depends on your water source as well all have different types of water. Some water is higher than others in PO4 which is a big no-no in reef tanks. SOme are higher in heavy metals which is also a big no-no. Its best to use R.O/DI water and add salt to it. That way you know exactly whats in your water. We have a lfs here that uses R.O. water with chambers that are at least 3 years old. The water is horrible and their fish show the ill effects.

[Fishboy93]

Yea lol i was refering more to the brand and whether or not it was CPR or U tube..bad wording....Here are some pics for all the newbies who plan on creating a saltwater reef step-by-step

Pic #1-The Empty Tank


Pic #2- The Base Rock Soaking as suggested by TOS


Pic#3- Base rock close-up


This weekend im heading over to my lfs to get some advice and make some minor purchases.

[Fishboy93]

Woot! Making a transaction on a CPR Bakpak2 Skimmer for $50 bucks and it comes with a pump.

[Fishboy93]

Questions:

Uno- For return pumps, its like 2.5 to 3 feet of tubing how strong should the pump be? The overflow will have 600gph. Also, for both of the tubing, what diameter should it be?

Dos- Will the liverock have enough die off to provide a decent cycle for the tank, the liverock is completely cured.

[fishfingers]

The pumps sometimes give you different ratings for different head heights, so have a look on the package for that. Don't know about tubing sorry, unless your using PVC pipe I'd probably just use whatever tubing fit your powerheads nozzle?

It your liverock is completely cured there will be no need for a cycle. The point of a cycle is to establish a bacteria colony in your tank and if the liverock is already cured then this bacteria colony is established. There should be no die off from cured LR, but it is very uncommon to have the LR be completely cured when put into your tank due to traportation.

[Fishboy93]

Okay thank you. Im going to my favorite lfs this weekend to make some purcahses ill take some pics..