thoughts of mine. . . . .

[247Plants]

I would think there would be just as many parameters needed watching in a planted tank than a simple fishless softie tank anyway? From the way I've seen them I'd rather run an SPS tank anyday before going planted.

having 3 planted tanks and being in the freshwater end of things, all I can say here is if my plants arent happy they wont kill each other or foul the tank horribly to the point of killing the whole tank. You are right there are lots of params to watch on a high tech tank but I can let mine slip for a bit and come back and dial it in and be back 100% within a week or two with the same stock generally.

No fish? Surely begginers want to have "nemo" in their tank.

I have yet to have a saltwater tank, but when I do I would be perfectly happy with a invert/coral tank as a beginner. Then again I wouldnt start off with a 10 gallon.

[fishfingers]

Yeah ok, this is just going around in circles. But I still stand by what I've said, and I'd tell people it again. Remember I'm only trying to give information to people based on my opinions and experiences. Its not like I lurk the forums preying on newbies with the aim of destroying their tanks in mind. I knew my opinion on this topic wouldn't be popular, but at least there are two different opinions out there now.

Tis been a fun discussion though...

[harif87]

Originally Posted by fishfingers

Yeah ok, this is just going around in circles. But I still stand by what I've said, and I'd tell people it again. Remember I'm only trying to give information to people based on my opinions and experiences. Its not like I lurk the forums preying on newbies with the aim of destroying their tanks in mind. I knew my opinion on this topic wouldn't be popular, but at least there are two different opinions out there now.

Tis been a fun discussion though...

And of course were just voicing our experiences and opinions as well.

To each their own

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

What's with all this promotion of softfies in a 10 gallon tank? The beginner isn't going to maintain the tank correctly, and those things DEMAND proper care or they'll foul the whole tank with their exudations.
Fishfingers, College reefer, it's fine that you two are doing everything right and having good success, but please don't let me catch you ever again encouraging nanoreefing to noobs. That is grossly irresponsible on many levels, and I'm sick of it.

I could not agree any more with these statements!

I have kept my mouth shut in this thread so far, biting my tounge hard. Now my tounge started bleeding so I had to speak up when I saw what I feel to be "facts"! posted.

Great, Now some of you will hate me.

[Fishboy93]

Originally Posted by Reefneck

I could not agree any more with these statements!

I have kept my mouth shut in this thread so far, biting my tounge hard. Now my tounge started bleeding so I had to speak up when I saw what I feel to be "facts"! posted.

Great, Now some of you will hate me.

I think people should be respecting you for biting your tongue, seeing as though you do have a thing against nano tanks(as do most experienced reefers when refering to noobs) and your experianced so...

[Kyoberr]

Originally Posted by Scuba Kid

They are when people dont have the knowledge and experience of basic fish keeping.

How do you know that this person doesn't have basic knowledge about fish keeping?!? They probably know what they are doing, experience is a good thing to have though, so if you read enough about it and took good care of it, then you could probably do it.

Nothing is impossible.

[Scuba Kid]

Originally Posted by Kyoberr

How do you know that this person doesn't have basic knowledge about fish keeping?!? They probably know what they are doing, experience is a good thing to have though, so if you read enough about it and took good care of it, then you could probably do it.

Nothing is impossible.

I know he does not have much experience in fishkeeping because I know who this member is and recall their previous posts and questions from no-to-long ago.

By the way, reading does not gain you experience.
How long have you been keeping saltwater, Kyoberr?

[CollegeReefer]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

What's with all this promotion of softfies in a 10 gallon tank? The beginner isn't going to maintain the tank correctly, and those things DEMAND proper care or they'll foul the whole tank with their exudations.
Fishfingers, College reefer, it's fine that you two are doing everything right and having good success, but please don't let me catch you ever again encouraging nanoreefing to noobs. That is grossly irresponsible on many levels, and I'm sick of it.

Its not like i promote it, i just say it can be done and can be done with sucess. Makeing a 10 gallon softy tank with a CUC would be a nice nano tank with a little work and time. I being a noob when i started my nano with great sucess will give support to those who seek to start a tank smaller then 50 gallons. I will and always have told them that it is easier to start with a bigger tank, but with a little extra work and time can have sucess with a smaller tank. That is all i have to say. If the starter of this thread would like to get help i will provide it, and if he isn't comfortable posting on the thread he started, he can always pm me or email me.

[fishfingers]

Originally Posted by harif87

And of course were just voicing our experiences and opinions as well.

To each their own

Yep I realise and respect that.

CollegeReefer you basically summed up my orginal point in your last post. I think I might of gotten a bit caught up in the swing of things trying to defend my position, but thats basically what I was trying to say.

[Damon]

Originally Posted by fishfingers

Yep I realise and respect that.

CollegeReefer you basically summed up my orginal point in your last post. I think I might of gotten a bit caught up in the swing of things trying to defend my position, but thats basically what I was trying to say.

And we do understand you point of view, but I believe you 2 are missing the bigger picture T.O.S. touched on without actually saying it.

It IS possible to do it. But the % of failure is A LOT higher. A lot of corals are still harvested which depletes the ocean. To encourage a new reefer (whether or not you believe you are) is not healthy to our environment. Our natural reefs are being depleted already let alone to risk the lives of these animals because one doesn't want to give their tank the best possible chance of success. It would be great if everyone succeeded but thats just not possible. Why increase the chances of killing the animals if you dont have to?

[Ice]

I'm going to have to agree with TOS, Reefneck & Damon on their responses. I, too was going to start a SW tank with a 36G tank but decided to start with a much larger tank after some serious advice be considered by Reefneck. Since then I have begun to to read and research more on SW keeping.

I'm also going to agree with harif with the notion one must start with FW keeping before getting into SW. I've read in amny books that people have started out in SW with great success without starting a FW tank.

Nano tanks - is it possible ? Yes.
Is it good starter for a beginner ? No.
Is it more probable to failure for a beginner ? Yes.
Small tanks, IMO are best left alone to experienced aquarists.
Just my 2 cents ...

[CollegeReefer]

I like most you you hate that so much is being taken from the oceans, and that is why i stated to the orginal poster that he should just get some coral frags. They are cheap and are not taking away from the already dewindling ocean corals and fish. There are so many tank bred fish and coral that i would hope people will start buying those instead of fish and corals from the ocean.

[Ice]

Frags are the way to go as far as getting corals rather from the ocean. Think Green ! LOL !!

[TheOldSalt]

Well, at least we can all agree on that, I think.

[Fishfirst]

A 10 gallon reef tank is definately tough. I've done it... but its not all that enjoyable LOL

[leveldrummer]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

What's with all this promotion of softfies in a 10 gallon tank? The beginner isn't going to maintain the tank correctly, and those things DEMAND proper care or they'll foul the whole tank with their exudations.
Fishfingers, College reefer, it's fine that you two are doing everything right and having good success, but please don't let me catch you ever again encouraging nanoreefing to noobs. That is grossly irresponsible on many levels, and I'm sick of it.

what is this? i hope you were saying this in jest, these seem like some very hard comments for someone just leaving their opinion, instead of telling newbs that they are doomed to fail with a nano, why not help them be succesful? thousands and thousands of "all in one" cubes are being sold these days, and many many many newcomers are being very very succesful with them, salt water really isnt as hard as everyone makes it out, its actually WAY easier to do that freshwater. just more expensive. frankly i think freshwater can set you back, you spend all this time learning how to care for a freshwater tank, just to show up on a forum and say "im finally ready for a reef tank, ive been doing freshwater for years, and i just set up my first tank, it has 2 HOB filters, a canister filter, some NO lights, and its got a 5 inch deep crushed coral bed. so far i have 10 tangs and an anenome"

instead they could have been doing salt water from the beginning, and know how a skimmer works, and know about the proper lighting, and know why crushed coral and other mechanical filters are junk. get some good lights, a good skimmer, and some live rock. BOOM instant reef, change a couple gallons every week, and keep it topped off, what else is there?

[CollegeReefer]

Thanks level drummer and well said. The saltwater part of fishforums needs lots of help before it will ever grow.

[leveldrummer]

Originally Posted by CollegeReefer

Thanks level drummer and well said. The saltwater part of fishforums needs lots of help before it will ever grow.

i know of at least 5 people that have never had a tank before, they went out, bought a nano cube, with just a tiny bit of bad advice from a fish store, they stocked it, and it has been doing great for a couple years, its actually very simple.

[fishfingers]

Yeah thanks for sticking up for us LD. As I've said in another post I've found most people here to be very helpful but tbh TOS's comment did cut a little deep. I tend to ignore things like that though.

Its good to hear you know of some people who have done a nano tank on their first go. I'm sure it could be done, but I've never talked to anyone whos done it, with people usually saying "it's to hard, I'll learn with FW first". Now that I've accomplished tropicals, cichlids and reef tanks, I'm surprised I thought this when I first began. You sum everything up nicely, well done.

[Damon]

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

instead they could have been doing salt water from the beginning, and know how a skimmer works, and know about the proper lighting, and know why crushed coral and other mechanical filters are junk. get some good lights, a good skimmer, and some live rock. BOOM instant reef, change a couple gallons every week, and keep it topped off, what else is there?

There is know about liverock placement, waterflow importance for different types of corals, fish who will or will not nip at corals, coral placement, what to look for when purchasing a coral, how to treat a sw tank (different than fw), hitchhikers than can arrive and if they are good or bad. I could go on but you know this stuff already................

Again I'm not saying it cant be done. Its just much harder.........

And for every 1 person you know that started with a nano and it thrived, I can list 10 who failed..........