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Beginner Saltwater Got questions? This is where you post them.

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Old 04-05-2007, 07:02 AM   #46
TheOldSalt
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"...i think it would make much more sense to start with a nano, you end up putting 60$ worth of coral and fish in it, and if it crashes... so what?..."

There. Right there. THAT is the very reason I don't bother helping people like you. Why cast pearls before cheapskate swine who will promptly ignore any advice given and do whatever is seemingly cheapest and easiest, since it doesn't really matter to them anyway?

"...its not the size of the tank that causes a crash, its the mistakes that people make, and crashing a nano isnt near as big of a deal as crashing a big tank...."

Oh. I BEG to differ.
First of all, those mistakes are easily absorbed and rendered safer in a bigger tank, which means that making a nanoreef is only the first of those mistakes.
Next, I'm sure all the dead nanoreef critters will be happy to know that their demises aren't a big deal. Of course, when you consider that for every big tank set up correctly there are several dozen little glass coffins all adding to the compounded slaughter, it suddenly becomes quite clear why nanoreefing among noobs must be discouraged, NOT encouraged. The allure of nanoreefing is very strong, and it attracts a lot of people who don't care if the animals live or die so long as it isn't expensive, and since it isn't expensive, they don't take enough time to do things properly, thereby snowballing the problem. People who just slap a nanoreef together, thinking it's going to be simplicity itself because they read on the internet that it is, and because it's cheaper, are the ones who quit the most, having had no real investment in their systems and also because they of course FAIL the most. A few people doing it right have a much lower environmental impact than hordes doing it wrong. ( or hordes doing it right, for that matter )

NOW do you see why I'm so against nanos for noobs, and the promotion of same?

There ARE several groups working very hard to shut this hobby down completely, and one of these days, if this trend continues, they are going to have enough evidence, in the form of failure rates, to put a serious hurting on us. Again. We MUST do what we can to prevent those failures, and while education and training are ideally very useful tools for that, your own attitude demonstrates why they alone won't work.

Oh, and finally, while I'm on a roll, all fishkeeping is the same. The big differences between fresh and salt are artificial and all in your mind. It's simply a matter of range. All the same things happen, but in different ways in different ranges, which means that learning to keep one type really does help you learn how to keep another. You are looking at fresh and salt as two completely different things, when in fact they are not different at all. Once you get past that you'll understand the flaws of your argument. The only extra things you have to learn when switching from one to the other are those few little ways the same processes are carried out differently, and how to account for them in practice. Piece of cake.

Last edited by TheOldSalt; 04-05-2007 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:30 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by leveldrummer

i think it would make much more sense to start with a nano, you end up putting 60$ worth of coral and fish in it, and if it crashes... so what? now if you start with a 75, and drop about 2000 grand in coral and fish and it crashes, your probably gonna quit the hobby. its not the size of the tank that causes a crash, its the mistakes that people make, and crashing a nano isnt near as big of a deal as crashing a big tank. and if they do crash it, (which may or may NOT be more likely) at least they arent pawning their car title to get it back up.
I am not with you on this one leveldrummer. I hate it when someones tank crashes because they don't do what they need to do to keep it going. I also don't like the idea of shrugging off the loss of life. When it comes to tank size, a small mistake in a small tank can cause the tank to crash where as in the larger tank the mistake will be almost unoticed. I have have a 20 gallon, 40 gallon and a 75 gallon and i will admidt that my nano is more work, but i love putting in the work. I check the parameters almost everyday. Add ro/di water everyday. I spend a lot more time with the 20 gallon then the other tanks.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:15 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by CollegeReefer
I am not with you on this one leveldrummer. I hate it when someones tank crashes because they don't do what they need to do to keep it going. I also don't like the idea of shrugging off the loss of life. When it comes to tank size, a small mistake in a small tank can cause the tank to crash where as in the larger tank the mistake will be almost unoticed. I have have a 20 gallon, 40 gallon and a 75 gallon and i will admidt that my nano is more work, but i love putting in the work. I check the parameters almost everyday. Add ro/di water everyday. I spend a lot more time with the 20 gallon then the other tanks.
Ahh.... Refreshing.
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:25 AM   #49
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I think that nanos should not be encouraged to people who haven't had fish before, or people who haven't had fish for very long, or for people who have had freshwater but have never had saltwater. Everyday at work, I meet someone who wants a nano tank, but has no clue how to even mix the salt. Now I'm not saying that with some good research, hard work, and a good forum like this one to help someone along, that it can't be done successfully... but I think most newbies don't want to take the time to do these things, nor have the motivation.
At work, even talking about mixing salt turns people away from getting a saltwater tank... the average newbie wants to take as little time learning as possible. So WHY encourage it? WHY promote it? There isn't a good reason besides having that 1 in 20 newbie who actually cares about the fish and does well, and THAT is the newbie who will take advise and get a larger tank to start with, OR get the largest possible tank he/she can afford even if it may be a little small on the gallonage side of things. These people with the "great idea" of "going saltwater" don't even recognize half the time that these fish are being harvested from the ocean, much less understand the nitrogen cycle, FISHKEEPING 101 here!!!!

I would like to say that we on fishforums have a responsibility to discourage people from doing a nano tank... at least at first. BUT if someone does still wants a nano tank after a few posts discouraging it, and they are willing to put in the time to research and work... we must do our best to set them up the right way, and do everything we can to help them. Lets try not to debate whether a nano is a good idea anymore, because the truth is... it isn't a good idea for most folks. So lets help the newbies that really want to make the effort and not the ones who want to start a nano on a whim.


This arguement has been beaten to death. The points have been made... the user is on a vacation from the forums right now, and this thread has worn out its use. This thread is closed.
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