thoughts of mine. . . . .

[PEVINE]

i have a 10 gallon tank, lookin pretty lame. thought about getting Puffers but then i saw coral and alot of cool saltwater fish. i was wndering if it would be possibal to get this tabnk saltwater or if it were to small and what I might need for a small coral tank, and if i could put a couple small good looking fish in there. thanks for your help

[Scuba Kid]

A 10 gallon is way too small for a beginners saltwater tank IMO. Especially when they are a beginner to keeping fish in general. In a tank this small, it is very easy for the water to become unstable and a tank to crash. Takes a lot of work and know-how.
If you want saltwater, I suggest a 40 gallon minimum tank to get used to caring for a marine tank.

[Bear]

i agree with Scuba Kid, I have recently started caring for a 12g and it has shown its challenges. Without a doubt, if I had not had the back of my head smacked about a million times by the great people here it would not be possible.

I would look into a FW planted tank. You can make a 10g look gorgeous with FW plants. If ur interested you should try talkin to JustOneMore20, and take a trip to plantedtank.net

[fishfingers]

I'm not gonna lie, it could be done, but most people wouldn't advise it. If you did really wanna do one then you could set up a decent softie/shroom tank pretty easily. Basically all you would need would be LR, adequate lighting and regular water changes. Would probably not put any fish in though, except maybe Gobiodon okinawae.

TBH nano tanks aren't as hard as people make them out to be. I had a successful shroom/zoa tank that I started up while my main tank was cycling that was very basic. I just made sure that I knew exactly what I was doing. That was an 18G though so it was quite a bit bigger.

[Scuba Kid]

Originally Posted by fishfingers

TBH nano tanks aren't as hard as people make them out to be.

They are when people dont have the knowledge and experience of basic fish keeping.

[PEVINE]

yea i will probly just do a planted FW tank. thanks for the help tho.

[fishfingers]

Originally Posted by Scuba Kid

They are when people dont have the knowledge and experience of basic fish keeping.

IMO it's a lot easier to go from nothing to saltwater than from freshwater to saltwater. They methods used are completely different.

[Scuba Kid]

Not necessarily. Anyone with a good amount of experience in freshwater will not have much of a problem in saltwater. The basic background they have helps a lot and they will have already made the common noobish mistakes that they can avoid with the bit more delicate sw.
Sorry, I don't agree with you.

[flamingo]

Starting with freshwater gives you the experience, confidence, and knowledge to take on the extra demands of the saltwater world. Someone who's never even done a water change isn't likely always to master everything a saltwater environment needs to keep stable to begin with. Reading about doing something is different than actually doing it.

[Scuba Kid]

Originally Posted by flamingo

Starting with freshwater gives you the experience, confidence, and knowledge to take on the extra demands of the saltwater world. Someone who's never even done a water change isn't likely always to master everything a saltwater environment needs to keep stable to begin with. Reading about doing something is different than actually doing it.

Agreed. Well said Dylan.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by flamingo

Starting with freshwater gives you the experience, confidence, and knowledge to take on the extra demands of the saltwater world. Someone who's never even done a water change isn't likely always to master everything a saltwater environment needs to keep stable to begin with. Reading about doing something is different than actually doing it.

perfect

[CollegeReefer]

Originally Posted by fishfingers

I'm not gonna lie, it could be done, but most people wouldn't advise it. If you did really wanna do one then you could set up a decent softie/shroom tank pretty easily. Basically all you would need would be LR, adequate lighting and regular water changes. Would probably not put any fish in though, except maybe Gobiodon okinawae.

TBH nano tanks aren't as hard as people make them out to be. I had a successful shroom/zoa tank that I started up while my main tank was cycling that was very basic. I just made sure that I knew exactly what I was doing. That was an 18G though so it was quite a bit bigger.

I am with fishfingers on this on. If you wanted you could set up your 10 gallon just as a invert and coral tank sticking too basic softies that thrive even in not the best water such as mushrooms, maybe xania, and a few others. Actually i think it would be kind of cool to have a tank with just different types of mushrooms. My 24 gallon tank sat with just coral and inverts for a long time and i must say it looked great then. I currently only have one fish in my tank and he isn't the main attraction the coral is. I say if you want to vanture into salt water a 10 gallon softie tank would be cool. And in all honesty i think you could set it up cheap. Like fishfingers said you would just need some pc's, live rock, live sand. and water movement and you would be set. Get coral frags from local hobbiest which are a fraction of the price you would spend buying from sites online. I think with weekly 20 percent water changes and makeing sure to top of with RO/DI or Distilled water, it would work out well. Let us know what you decide to do.

[fishfingers]

As I said, I didn't think most of you would agree with me. I do think your making SW out to a be a lot harder than what it is. In a system like the one I described making "newbie" mistakes would really not take that much of a toll on the health of the system. Obviously you would take the whole process slower if you were new to it as opposed to if you were experienced, but that's no different to a newbie setting up a FW tank. IMO setting up a planted tank is no easier than setting a SW tank up as I've described.

It's like learning the saxophone so that it will help you to play the trumpet. They are both instruments, but if you want to play the trumpet why bother learning the sax? But again, I really don't think its as difficult to set up a SW as its being made out to be.

[flamingo]

Well, for one, your right- I don't agree with it. But i'd also like to point out, if you come into chat, you'll see me and Scuba constantly saying saltwater isn't hard. I've also heard Katie say a few times "you make it to be more than what it really is". With saying, i'm also not saying it's the easiest thing though.

I just don't get how having absolutely no experience or time spent maintaining a simple set up beforehand is going to make things any easier. Oh well, all the further i'm going at this point .

[harif87]

Id have to disagree with the notion that its easier to go into SW without doing FW beforehand.

Your claim is that they require 2 different methods of husbandry. That is infact very inaccurate. The methods used in FW are the basics used in SW. Yeah FW practices dont dictate one keeping an eye on one's calcium levels, but all of FW practices are found in SW husbandry.
What your saying is the equivalent of saying that its easier to drive a truck before stepping foot in a car than it is to have experience in drivind a sedan before a truck...... How do you expect to drive a truck if you dont even know where the gas pedal is??? How do you expect to keep an 18 wheeler with a few tons behind it steady if you cant keep
a go-kart steady?

[Damon]

I'd agree Morris. Its comparing addition to calculus. They are both math but one requires much more thought and knowledge. Having a reef, planted tank, and freshwater I can say without a doubt that saltwater is more difficult. Water chemistry is a lot different, mistakes are more costly and overall its more time consuming. Ich in a fw tank is easy. Ich in a sw tank will ruin it to the point you may have to leave it fallow for months. Development of coralline algae alone takes months. Filtration is completely different. And breeding is not nearly as easy. While I'm not saying a beginner cant do saltwater, it is a much larger undertaking with a better possibility of failure without basic fishkeeping knowledge and with that still very possible.

[fishfingers]

Lol I'm not making any friends am I. Damon has said the reasons why I would do saltwater first without doing freshwater. Except for the most costly and time comsuming bit, remember we are talking about a tank with LR, sofities and light! Basically all you would need to worry about is salinity, lighting levels and iodine to some extent. I don't think freshwater is a good learning step to get when you get saltwater coz almost everything is looked upon from a different perspective. New people to the hobby start of researching FW, so why can't they just reasearch SW in the first place and start there. As I said your typical newbie mistake wouldn't be too much of a problem in the tank described so I don't see why you would need a FW tank to make all your mistakes on. It's like walking from A to B to C if you only need to go from A to C.

I would think there would be just as many parameters needed watching in a planted tank than a simple fishless softie tank anyway? From the way I've seen them I'd rather run an SPS tank anyday before going planted.

[harif87]

Originally Posted by fishfingers

Lol I'm not making any friends am I. remember we are talking about a tank with LR, sofities and light! Basically all you would need to worry about is salinity, lighting levels and iodine to some extent.

No fish? Surely begginers want to have "nemo" in their tank.
Ammonia/nitrate levels need to be monitered along with phosphates and other nutrients to prevent algae blooms. You dont need to have fish in the tank to have high nutrient levels. All that good stuff can come straight from the tap.

Also id like to point out that you just contradicted yourself a bit by saying this. Your saying that there is nothing to keeping Sw the way you just described it. It sounds like a FW tank just with some salt in the water.... in that case why even mention the given scenario? I mean you should be all for begginers keeping hard to keep species like certain pipefish, cephlapods, butterflyfish etc....

I don't think freshwater is a good learning step to get when you get saltwater coz almost everything is looked upon from a different perspective.

And what perspective is that? I myself dont see it in any different perspective than i do my reeftank.




Id also like to say that your theoretical thinking (which is appreciated) doesnt agree with reality. The reality is that there have been countless people who jump into SW and end up having to tear down their tanks. Go to craigslist.org.. where do you think the deals on SW equipment and livestock are comming? Not from the experienced reefer who wants to give out deals at his own expense, but by those people who have failed. Its not an easy hobby at the begginer level and im sure hundreds of people can testify.

[Fishboy93]

Seeing as though im in this exact situation, Im a little overwhelmed even though i've done most of what you can do with freshwater(Natives, Planted, Community, breeders) IME it seems like doing freshwater first has helped me gain experiance and how to react to certain situations. Just my 2 cents..

[TheOldSalt]

What's with all this promotion of softfies in a 10 gallon tank? The beginner isn't going to maintain the tank correctly, and those things DEMAND proper care or they'll foul the whole tank with their exudations.
Fishfingers, College reefer, it's fine that you two are doing everything right and having good success, but please don't let me catch you ever again encouraging nanoreefing to noobs. That is grossly irresponsible on many levels, and I'm sick of it.