Help

[taz1989]

well i need help....i'm starting a saltwater fish tank but i need some help with supplies that i need. can anyone drop me a line with a list of what i might need? thanks

[guppyart]

First thing is SW is really expensive, don't expect it to be cheap, also if you can find a local reef club or forum that will help in finding used equipment.
so here is a simple list.
tank
Lights, powercompacts,VHO,T5s, Metal Halide are the choices for lights some are brighter but cost more, do some research into each type and then choose.
Heater
Protien skimmer, there are several brands pretty well you get what you pay for, never cheap out when it comes to a SW tank.
Sump, and then a pump to bring water back into the tank
overflows, or drilled tank
powerheads
Salt, some brands are instant ocean, red sea, ocean pure.
also always use Reverse Osmosis water don't use the stuff from your tap unless you have an RO unit.
I am just begining so a more experienced person will give more info, thats just a start of what kind of equipment your going to need.
Don't be afraid to ask any questions everyone here is willing to help.

[k-dawg-]

read the sticky's and buy a book thats what i did, then im sure anyone here will help you out

[taz1989]

i did buy a book...well i guess i should say my girlfriend bought me a book but it start to confuss me alittle bit, so i thought i would look into a forum to see what people might be able to help out with

[Bear]

I can understand how just starting can be a little tricky so I'll ask you some questions and give you some advice. There are a # of us here that will help you, it just helps when you ask more specific questions.

Tank: For starters we need to consider the tank size. It sounds like this is going to be your first SW tank. Just starting out you won't want too large of a tank because you might find that unmanageable, but you also don't want too small due to its restrictions and instability. For a starter size I would suggest a 40 gallon to 60 gallon tank.

----Do you know what kind of tank you want? FO (Fish Only), FOWLR (Fish Only With Live Rock), or a Reef? and then there is, what kinda reef?, if you decide to go this way. For a starter I would suggest a nice mixed reef

Lights: Now on to lights, this will change with different requirements of corals and such. Unless you are going for a reef tank it wont truly matter so much. But when it comes to a reef tank I would suggest starting with a Power Compact light fixture. To be more specific I would suggest a 2x96 watt coralife power compact light fixture. There are too many variations and options with lights to even start covering that issue now, but to start this will be a great light fixture for a 40g, but with these lights you need to remember that the bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months.

Temp: Now when it comes to temperature control, it is very important to keep your tank at a temperature around 78 deg f. I usually keep mine between 78 and 82. You can do this by using a small submersible heater, I would use a stealth visi therm heater (great unit) and for the 40g I would use a 200 watt heater kept at a temp around 76 deg, pretty much just incase it drops too low. Depending on how high the temp gets where you are you may consider getting a chiller to keep the temp in the tank down. Fans running over the water can also help in this area.


Sump: Where a sump is concerned, I would not suggest one for your first tank. A sump is a tank placed below your display tank that is filled with more saltwater. It is hooked up to the display tank in such a fashion that water comes down from the display tank and into the sump and then it is pumped back up into the display tank. This has a number of different purposes. The first and most important is adding more volume to the tank, making it more stable. The second thing that this does is give you a place to hide things like a heater and skimmer. It also may give you a place for a refugium, but at the beginning I would not worry about that. You do not need a sump and it would probably just prove to be added hassle when starting up the tank.

Skimmer:Along with my advice to not have a sump I would advise to have a HOB (hang on back) skimmer. I have heard many good things about the coralife super skimmer. This will help get rid of the dissolved waste...poop.

Powerheads: When it comes to powerheads, what you are going to keep in the tank will have to come into question. Powerheads are used to push the water around and make surface agitation, which makes it so lil fishies can breathe . So even if you are not keeping a reef tank it would be a good idea to have one. When it comes to a reef tank it really depends on what kind of coral you keep, but for the mixed tank as i suggested I would invest in a # of maxijets (good brand for smaller powerheads). Certain corals need certain amounts of flow, just as they have requirements for light. For the amount of water flow I would suggest around 20-25x turnover of the water volume per hour.

Live Rock and Live Sand: There are ways to get around buying all Live Rock (LR) and All Live Sand (LS). In fact you could just use about half LR and the other half base rock and just wait for the base rock to be seeded nicely. The expense on LS may also be skipped with using argonite sand and just wait for it to be seeded by the LR as well. Personally I have invested on the LR and LS because I am an impatient person and did not want to wait for the seeding. For the depth of the sand bed, that is all preference, but because this is a beginner tank I cannot say that barebottom is even and option, but because you want to avoid frustration to a point a really deep sand bed would be a bad idea. I would shoot for around 2" of sand. Where LR is concerned it is a good idea to stock with 1.5-2 lbs of rock per gallon of water. For example, my old 40gallon tank had 75 lbs of LR.


Cycle: Do you know what the nitrogen cycle is and how it takes place in fish tanks?

Salt: When it comes to a brand of salt there are a number out there, but I can say that I have been using Instant Ocean without problem for a little while now and if you pay attention of drsfostersmith.com you can catch a really good deal on the stuff. Tropic marin pro is also a very high quality salt mix.

Water: You can use tap, but I would be very careful. It is really hard to know exactly what is in ur tap. You can find reports of what is put into your tap, but there is no telling what can get in there before it goes to ur tank. If you are going to use tap I would make sure and treat it with something like prime or amqual plus before mixing it with salt or adding to the tank. I personally use RO/DI water because it has lead to clearer water for me . Some free floating algae eat things that are in the tap and can change the appearance of the tanks water.

Levels: Keeping check on all of the levels in the tank and doing weekly water changes are very important. Some levels to check would be ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, salinity, calcium, and KH (you may want to add to this list later). Doing these frequent water changes will help replenish your tank of the nutrients being used up by the corals and will also help reduce harmful levels, such as nitrate.


I hope this helped

please if anyone has anything to add or if you believe I have something wrong please respond

[TheOldSalt]

Assuming that Bear's post didn't just scare the bejeebers out of you to the point of rethinking this, I'll echo some previous things.

Saltwater is Expensive. Period. If you try to cut too many corners, you will fail, all your fish will die, and all your money will be wasted. Do it right or don't do it at all.
Saltwater is highly technical. You must have an understanding of what is happening in your tank, how it happens, why it happens, and how to make it do what you want it to do. If you do not, you will not be successful, or only marginally successful, and you will again have a big mess. The same is true for freshwater, really, but in freshwater you have a lot of room for error. In saltwater, you do not, for reasons which shall soon become clear to you as your studies progress.

That's not to say that it's hard, though. It's not. All you need is the understanding of what to do and why, the money to do it with no trouble, and the WILL to do it when it needs to be done. If you lack any of these three things, then you will fail.

Now are you nervous? Good. Maybe you'll set out right from the start to do everything right and be a big success. The fact that you are here is a very good sign, so stick with us and you'll be fine.

So, you say you are confused by the book. No surprise there, since most books tend to leave out things that they assume are covered in other books, leading to missing pieces of the puzzle. Reading MORE books will be enormously helpful. While on the subject, let me stress something to you: books are edited for accuracy. The internet isn't edited at all for the most part, and the info you find on it is not necessarily wrong, but you really have to be careful about what to believe. When one guy says "yeah, sure that'll work fine" while 20 other guys are saying it won't, then you had better listen to the 20 other guys.

So, get some more books and read them. Next, ask us questions about whatever you still don't get, which will likely be a lot of things since there is so much to cover. Try to make your questions as specific as possible, because if you ask too broad a question, you'll get too broad an answer every time.
For example, you question here today is too broad to answer in any really useful way. We don't know what you're aiming for, so we don't know what to recommend. Our only choice is to give you huge lists of indigestible info you can only barely use because you won't know which of those things you need for you planned type of setup.

What book do you have? Tell us that and we'll be able to point out parts in it which can clear up any confusion you have, as well as clarify things ourselves.

[Reefneck]

Right now, After reading all that even I am almost confused.
By now, You are probably saying to yourself.....



The important thing is as stated....Read alot of different books on saltwater tanks.




There will be times when you will feel like there is no end to the learning.




If you read alot and listen to the advice you get from us here you will soon be kicking back and enjoying a successful saltwater tank!

[Bear]

Reefneck....that was great

This must all be pretty confusing, really its better to ask one question at a time, but that in itself if difficult because you may not know where to start.

So, back that thang up. Do you have a tank in mind? What size?

[Ice]

ROFLMAO !!! Ya made my day, Reefneck !!!

Definitely read as much as you can researching saltwater aquaria keeping. Take it slow until you really understand it's biology, why it does this and how to fix this and so on ... Don't be afraid to ask questions here. These guys & gals do know their stuff and have alot of experience in this great hobby.

[musho3210]

Originally Posted by guppyart

First thing is SW is really expensive, don't expect it to be cheap, also if you can find a local reef club or forum that will help in finding used equipment.
so here is a simple list.
tank
Lights, powercompacts,VHO,T5s, Metal Halide are the choices for lights some are brighter but cost more, do some research into each type and then choose.
Heater
Protien skimmer, there are several brands pretty well you get what you pay for, never cheap out when it comes to a SW tank.
Sump, and then a pump to bring water back into the tank
overflows, or drilled tank
powerheads
Salt, some brands are instant ocean, red sea, ocean pure.
also always use Reverse Osmosis water don't use the stuff from your tap unless you have an RO unit.
I am just begining so a more experienced person will give more info, thats just a start of what kind of equipment your going to need.
Don't be afraid to ask any questions everyone here is willing to help.

that is just stuff for larger (55 gallon+) reef tanks. You dont NEED a sump (although can hide your stuff and raise tank volume as was said before. You dont NEED those high lighting system unless you want a reef tank. And you dont NEED a skimmer if you are willing to do heavy water changes and your tank is very lowly stocked.

[Fishfirst]

Indeed you don't need them... but it all depends on their system and what they want to do with it. Basically he gave some advise of things they SHOULD get. Skimmers, high intensity lights, sumps all help keep a tank trucking along. You don't need four wheels to drive, but it sure helps.

[taz1989]

ok bear to your statement....i am starting with a 29 gallon tank (which was my fresh water tank which i bought a 20 gallon for that) i would love to do a reef tank because i think it's what looks the best and i need something good looking in my room cause it's kinda plain with the white walls.

[Bear]

ok cool, now we have somewhere to start.

Now with this I would suggest about 55lbs of Live Rock and an argonite sand bed of about 2".

Do you know what kind of corals you wish to keep?

I think you may be fine without the extra water volume a sump would give you, but you will have to pay close attention to your levels.

I would really suggest you get a skimmer, like I said before I would go for the coralife HOB super skimmer. For this size tank I would also suggest a couple of maxijet 1200s. Also a 150 watt heater.

does it get really hot where you are? If so the initial cost will jump quite a bit, but if not then you will probably be fine with some fans running over the surface.

Do you want a canopy?

[taz1989]

not really...i was looking at some pics from this guy that is setting up his tank and it looked nice, but for the most part i want to do something that would look nice with clown fish and some angel fish. I have a heater already (bought a new one for my 20g tank) and it's 100-150 watts i can't member the actual amount. I got a decide filter. a Penguin BIO-wheel 350. it doesn't really get to hot where i live. I live in Delaware, it really don't get to hot here. what's a canopy?

[CollegeReefer]

Taz1989,

I will echo everyone else’s post by saying make sure you do all the reading you can before you start. The more you know the better you will be off. You may be surprised how much there is to know. I and everyone else on this forum that have saltwater tanks set up already are still reading and learning. There are always things to learn in this hobby. Many things you won’t learn till you have a tank as well. I will tell you this though, I spent 6 months researching each day on the hobby before I set my tank up. I then researched another 3 weeks while my tank was cycling. And I am still researching now. I browse the forums, read different books, watching discovery channel (Planet Earth). You will want to be prepared.

Alright, time to address your actually tank. A 29 gallon is a little on the smaller size, but don’t fret it still can be done. The more water volume you have the easier it is going to be able to maintain your tank. So what does this mean for you, you ask? Well there are a few options. You could just set up your 29 gallon with your protein skimmer and heater, and other pumps sitting on the back of the tank. This in my opinion would be the worse choice for a few reasons. First of all you will have less then 29 gallons of water in it when you have your live rock and sand in the tank. Second and in my opinion a crucial reason is that having all your stuff hanging on the back of your tank just doesn’t look all that great. Why have a great looking reef tank with a whole bunch of equipment in the back?

Your second option would be to add a 10-20 gallon sump. It takes very little to add this and it will add both water volume to your tank and a place to hide your protein skimmer and heater. You will also create a little refugium or safe haven in center of the sump to harbor macro algae and a place for pods to thrive in. Here is an example of a sump using an old tank and some glass baffles. This is from one of my tanks.



Now you might be asking yourself how can I get the water down to the sump. Well the answer is easy, you just need either a drilled tank (which you don’t have) or a overflow box. With a 29 gallon tank I would say an overflow box that drops about 300 gph would be suffice. Here is my overflow box. This will drop up to 700 gph.



As you can see by the pictures, water drops down to chamber 1 where I have my protein skimmer. Protein skimmers will off the best filtration for your tank. I would not start a tank without one unless you plan on doing weekly 20 percent water changes. I a good, but cheaper protein skimmer that I swear by is the coralife needle wheel. Best bang for the buck in my opinion. The water then has either 2 or 3 glass baffles which act as a bubble trap. Chamber two is what we call a refiguim. This is where you would have a piece of live rock and different types of macro. The third chamber which is separated by another baffle is for your return pump which has an outlet back up at your display tank. Setting up your tank this way is one of the best ways to set up a saltwater tank.

Your third option is to opt out and buy a bigger tank and set it up with a sump. If you have the room I would get as big as a tank you can fit in the space you have. If you do buy a new tank I would look for a tank that is drilled. This will get rid of the need of a overflow box. The bigger tank would allow for more water volume and easier care. You can make a mistake without as much of an impact as you would have with a smaller tank. Also, I am sure everyone here would back me up on this one, once you start a saltwater tank and have some success with it, it will become an addiction. You will water more fish, coral, and inverts. A bigger tank will allow you to expand a lot more then your 29 gallon tank.

After you decide exactly how you want to set up your tank, the next thing to do is decided what types of corals you want to keep. If you only plan on keeping mushrooms and softies, a set of compact florescence will work. But if you want to keep anything else, including a clam, you will want to get metal halide. What’s nice about Metal Halide is that they will work with most corals including mushrooms and softies. They are defiantly the way to go. Once you have the coral picked out you will also need to figure out what kind of flow you need. Some corals need low flow where others need high flow. You will read much more about this in your books and on the forums.

Once you have it all set up and filled with saltwater and sand, it will be time to add your live rock. Live rock is the most important part of a saltwater system for it provides a majority of the filtration. Live rock is the key to keeping tank up and running. The amount of live rock you need all depends on the type of rock you get. Fiji which is the most common, you will need around 1-1.5 pounds per gallon. If you stick with your 29 gallon, I would suggest going with all live rock. You will need all the help you can get with keeping up with the tank cleanliness. If you go larger, you have a few options. You can do half live rock, half dry rock or Half decro liverock and half base rock. You should do some reading up on live rock and how it benefits the tank.

Once you have your live rock you will need to let the tank cycle. This process make sure there is enough bacteria to break down ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. You should do some reading on this process. This cycling process can tank anywhere from a week to a month. So patients is key to keeping a saltwater aquarium. Once the tank is cycled it would be time to add your clean up crew which will consist of snails, hermit crabs, crabs (maybe), shrimp, and star fish. Once again you will have to wait for the tank to adjust to its new inhabitants. After another week or so you will be able to add your fish which starts an even more complicated process. I will go into some of the basics, but for the most part you will need to do the reading yourself.

One of the biggest mistake many make in this hobby is placing a fish in a tank that is too small. This will require you to pick only fish that can be housed in the size tank you have. A 29 gallon tank will limit your choices, but you would be able to have your clown fish which require at least a 30 gallon tank. The next biggest mistake people make are they add fish that are not compatible with other fish. This means you will need to read up on

[CollegeReefer]

Am i the only one not a fan of all the cat pictures?

[TheOldSalt]

LOL, reefer.

Clowns are fine in a 29, but unless you're thinking about a Cherub, Angels are not such a great idea. Even Cherubs can chew on your corals, come to think of it.
Overflows do come in slimmer sizes, and also in different colors like black and clear, so don't panic when you see that big bulky blue thing in 'reefer's tank. You could otherwise take your tank to a glass shop, or maybe a major reef shop, and have it drilled for a simple bulkhead fitting which would be out of the way.
Can you get by without a sump at all? Well, yes, but you won't like the results as much as you would WITH one.

[Reefneck]

Originally Posted by CollegeReefer

Am i the only one not a fan of all the cat pictures?

Heheheheh, Probably not. Just the only one to voice it so far.

Not everyone is a cat lover and that's cool too. We all have our differences. It would be hateful if we all liked the same things 100% of the time.

[fishbguy]

i love tha cat pics too. you really need to make a topic specifically for cat pics like that. keep up the work on this thread. i want to set up a salt water tank in the near future(but that might be a few years) and am learning alot about the SW world.

[taz1989]

well i've kind of figured out what kind of reef i want. i was thinking like the mushrooms in there but i think i might need some other stuff for them. i just wanted to thanks everyone on here for helping me. I'm going to go out and buy some books to help me as well and i'll prolly post on here again.