Powerhead Advice

[Sitaga]

Howdy everyone!

I've made it to the Powerhead portion of my tank setup. Here are the specs on what I have so far:

Tank: 55 Gallon – 48” X 13” x 18 ¾”
Water: Max 50 Maxxima RO DI 50gpd (Kent)
Lighting: 48" 4x54W Tek 2 T5 High-Output Retrofit Kit w/ Bulbs (add SLR Reflectors) -
2 X 54W 10000K AquaSun T5 HO Fluorescent
2 X 54W Blue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent

Bottom Surface:
3 X Bio-Activ Live Aragonite Reef Sand - 20 lbs.
Protein Skimmer:
Included in Filtration setup
Filtration:
CLF1 Lifereef Compact Berlin System
Includes:
CLF1 sump, 24 x 13 x 14
System pump, MagDrive 9
SVS2-24 protein skimmer
Henri PS7 pump for protein skimmer
Hoses/clamps/fittings

LifeReefugium, 12 x 12 x 18
12" Current Satellite light canopy
or
LifeReefugium, 20 x 12 x 18
20" Current Satellite light canopy


Lifereef Prefilter Box

Rock:
85 pounds LR
Heating:
RENA Cal Top Light Excel Heater - 300W
Gravitymeter:
Coralife Deep Six Hydrometer
Marine Test Kits:
Marine Lab Master Test Kit
Thermometer:
Big Digital Temp Alert

Powerheads:
Fill in the blank.

I would like a mixture of soft and hard coral - mainly because at the present time I don't know what I want for sure, so I want to keep my options open.

Thanks,
Sitaga

[Reefneck]

Mixed reefs are trouble. You couldn't GIVE me that sump/skimmer combo. And a Hydrometer?? Ewwww! Must have a Refractometer! Need a better heater as well! I don't know who has been advising you on some of this junk but wow, Lots of work to do before worrying about flow.

[CollegeReefer]

I will only use the hydro korlaia now since trying them. I am actually planning on moding my maxijets to act more like the korlia. What is nice about them is they offer a lot of flow without shooting a jet of water. Water is pushed everywhere which I believe is better for coral growth.

As for what reefneck said about a few items on the list i would agree with him. Lifereef is good but can be expensive. I have a livereef overflow box and prefilter which i got used. For your sump you could do what I and many others do, just buy another tank and put baffles in it. I have heard mixed reviews on the lifereef protein skimmer. If you are going to pay that kind of money you should just go with a euroreef protein skimmer. They offer some of the best in the business. Also i echo what reefneck said about the hydrometer, they are junk. I started with one and then got a refractometer which is much more accurate and found that my hydrometer was off by .02. They aren't to expensive. Otherwise things are loooking good. Many people don't plan out their aqurium, they just buy and put together. It are those people who waste money and end up getting out of the hobby. Keep up the good work.

[CollegeReefer]

oh on a side note, skip the bio active sand, not worth the extra money. Your live rock will seed your sand. Or if you go with dry rock you can get a cup or two of live sand from local reefers. You can also buy livesand activators on the web. For more info see my sticked thread of seeding live rock in the general saltwater section.

[Sitaga]

Well - this is exactly why I wanted to post the list of items. The list was created by in large part by self research.. the items you did not comment on (lighting, LR quantity, thermometer) are the items that folks in the chat have recommended. So it's fairly obvious I should not attempt to find stuff myself on the internet. I will add the refractometer to the list. So I'll go back to the drawing board before discussing the powerheads.



Now the problem is that I have a huge learning curve to climb over just to get things started. In order to lesson that curve I thought it would be best to spend a little extra money and get someone with more experience than I to set up the sump/refugium system. I do not want to read all about the how tos on DIY systems and try to climb that mountain as well. Maybe with my next tank I can look deeper into that possibility.

The reason I went with the bio active sand was because I could not find dry Aragonite sand that was much cheaper. The prices were pretty much the same, so I just went with the live.

In a nutshell, I would rather pay someone (if lifereef isn't the right company, who is?) to build me something than purchasing a tank and trying to DIY the whole thing. Some may say that's the lazy way out, but I would rather concentrate on the well being of my reef than if the silicon I purchased is adding algae to my tank.

thanks again for the help - it is greatly appreciated.

Sitaga

[CollegeReefer]

I can understand what you are saying with having someone do your sump/refugium. Just check this out and then make a decision. This is what i and many others use. It is a very easy diy project that takes less then 1 hour to complete. Instead of using a 20 gallon you can use anysize aqurium you have. I currently have a 29 gallon under my 75, but i wish i had a bit larger sump/refugium. Good luck and keep on reading.

[flamingo]

Edited......

[k-dawg-]

...and as far as your question maxijets or koralia pumps are both good options IMO

[Sitaga]

I have gained two things from this thread.

1. Lifereef isn't a good fit if I want the best setup I can get. This being the case I will follow CollegeReefer's advice and look into a DIY system. I will include an AMS skimmer and will post questions about the remaining items as I have questions.

2. There is a consciences from people offering advice that Koralia are the way to go for powerheads. After I get the sump in place I will make another post requesting advice on quantity.

Sincerely,
Sitaga

[leveldrummer]

sitage, the problem with sumps is, as of now, most manufactured systems dont really fit the needs of aquarists, it is much easier to get an old tank, get some glass cut at your local hardware store, and build one, rather than get one of the "all in one" systems to function properly. if a diy isnt your idea of a good time, you can also find many manufacturers of custom acrylic sumps, it might cost more, but they usually do great work, and many of them are very nice people and will help you decide what you need.

as for skimmers, they are one of the prime peices of equipment in a successful reef, so skimping on that is a very bad idea, like reefneck said, ASM, make a great product, its affordable and works very well, it also has ease of maintenance, and simple setup. ive also had alot of luck with octopus brand skimmers, but it is basically a clone of asm, and euroreef. so any of those models would be great skimmers. with a reef, you really dont need or want a typical power filter, so skip it, and live sand in a lot of peoples opinions (including mine) is a waste, dead sand and live rock is all you need, a handfull of sand from a friends tank, or the lfs could help, but really isnt needed, the organisms on the rock with spread into the sand fast enough, and it will become live sand in no time.

your lights are a great choice, and i think you will be very happy with them.

one thing i think your missing is a way to get the water from the tank to the sump. you have to use gravity, so either you need to buy a "reef ready" tank, that is already drilled with an overflow, or get a hang on the back overflow box, the HOB box has its problems, so a reef ready tank is definatly the easier way (although more expensive) way to go.

about your heater. reefs are fragile, so swings in temperature are very bad, so instead of one large heater, it is a very good idea to get 2 smaller ones, way if one breaks, it wont cook or freeze the tank. if you have one heater and it gets stuck on, it will cook, if it gets stuck off, the temp will drop, get it?


hope all that was helpful. happy reefin!

[Sitaga]

Hello leveldrummer!
Thanks for the reply – I really appreciate the help I am getting!
The reason I would like to go with a pre-fab sump is because I do not want to take the risk of messing something up. I can just see myself purchasing a tank and other items, getting out my tools and going to work on it. The finding out a month or so later that something was wrong or missing or even worse, breaking something in the process of putting it together. The price of getting an expert to build it for me is well worth it in my opinion. When working on my filtration portion of my tank I turned to the internet and found Lifereef. I sent them an e-mail with what I wanted and almost immediately (within 20 minutes) received a reply with several choices, prices, and a few tidbits of information. The guy seemed interested in my new hobby and wanted to do what he could to assist me. He sent me a list of products that were in his current sump system that would fit well below my 55G tank. I’m sure he would be more than willing to replace the SVS2-24 protein skimmer with an ASM Mini-G Protein Skimmer w/ Pump (or bigger). The question I guess I am left with is: If money was not the concern, does Lifereef make quality products? If so, is there a reason I should not go with them other than the expense?

The reason I have live sand listed is because I could not find dry sand much cheaper (it was only a couple bucks difference). Can you recommend a brand/store that has dry sand at a lower price than about $1/pound?

The tank I currently have is not reef-ready, so I will be needing an HOB, though I was under the impression that the Lifereef Prefilter Box (http://www.lifereef.com/lg_pre.gif or http://www.lifereef.com/siphon.html) covered this area.

I can replace the heater I have listed with 2 or 3 Jager TS Series Heater - 150W or should I look for something different? Maybe more 100W’s? Will I need a chiller as well? I do not currently have that on my list, but I’ve heard a couple people mention it in chat.

Other than the items I have listed I still need to decide on the powerheads (sounds like Hydor Koralia is the way to go, now I just need to figure out size and quantity), salt mixes, power backup, and timers (for powerheads and lighting). Have I missed anything?

[leveldrummer]

sitaga,
here is SOME sand, if you dig, you can find tons of places with it,
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari..._caribsea.html

and your right, that prefilter box is a hob overflow, i just didnt see it, that would work great. just make sure that bubbles dont form in the "u tube", that could cause it to break syphon, and you will have a situation on your hands, this might not make sense now, but it will soon enough.

2 heaters would be fine, no need for 3 really, but youll have to go by their reccomendation for watts, i havent used a heater in a while, so i dont remember proper sizes.

you SHOULDNT need a chiller, usually its the high intensity lights that cause reef tanks to heat up, but your running t5's and they dont have that problem but that could be added later if you do run into heat issues and need one.

hydors are great powerheads, there are many other good brands out there, ubt for the money, right now i think you have the best in mind.

now for the sump...

i have never used life reef, or heard of anyone that has, i just really dont like the idea of all in one units, they are very hard to add anything else too, they are even harder to clean, it just ends up being something sitting in your garage once you realize that its much easier to get an old fish tank, and silicone a couple pieces of glass in. ive got some reading for you, here is a 3 part article on the basics of sumps, their purposes, and how they should work.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/gt/index.php

and here is a very well known builder of acrylic sumps, you can look as his sit for years and not learn all there is to know. do dig around here and see what you think. http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

you can come up with a very simple design, all you need is 3 baffles (pieces of glass cut at your local hardware store) and some silicone, and we can help you build a very simple and effective sump. then all you do is drop your skimmer and return pump in

[leveldrummer]

lol and all you wanted was some advice on a powerhead! lol....

[Sitaga]

TheOldSalt,

Thanks for stopping by!

leveldrummer,

thanks again for the advice. On the sand, I did look at that site and to me it just seemed like most of the sand was around $1/pound which is the same price as the live stuff. I figured I would go with the live sand instead of saving $4. Before making the finally commitment I will check around some more. I want to clarify though that the only reason this recommendation is being made is for the cost. It does not have to do with the quality of live sand. Is this a fair assessment?

On the HOB, yes I have heard of them draining a tank and spilling water all over the place. That makes me re-think the project and consider setting this tank up as a FW or SWFO and buying a new tank for a reef (what's another couple hundred bucks now?).

FYI: The lifereef unit is two parts, the sump is seperate refugium. Just wanted you to know that in case the question/issue is presented to you in the furture.

It sounds to me like my best bet is to just bite the bullet and build my own sump. I have reviewed the link Collegereefer posted and my head about spun off my head (though I did learn a lot about the genetics of the sump). I will review the links you sent and try to get a better handle on it.

Is there an alternative to a sump that you would recommend or is it the only way to go?

Thanks again for the help!
Sitaga

[leveldrummer]

usually live sand is much more money, but its somewhat misleading, because you dont really get much "life" in it, you really only get some bacteria, and im not to sure about that depending how long the sand sits in the store, if you have a petsmart or something around, check for sand there, 1$/lb is resonable, so any way you wanna go is strickly choice.

Originally Posted by sitaga

whats a couple hundred more bucks now?

sadly, lol, that is the perfect attitude to have a reef tank, dont be cheap, your already in it for a grand at least, whats a little more? for the record, the hob overflows are perfectly safe, they do have their issues, but if set up properly and maintained, they shouldnt be any problem what so ever. although it you do want to get a new tank. i would upgrade just a bit, try to find a used 75, (same as a 55 only 6 inches wider) the extra space would come in very handy as you set up your rock and corals.

college reefers link was a great one, and i hope you read through all that stuff i gave you, it should help, and yes, building your own sump is BY FAR, the easiest, cheapest way to go, it seems like a tough project, but it really isnt, you will be very proud of something you built, especially when it works better than most of the things offered in stores. just remember to get the biggest tank you can easily fit under your stand.

[Sitaga]

Thanks again! Back to the drawing board. To be honest, I have noticed that the prices of the items on my list are very similar when upgrading slightly (going with a little bigger heater, skimmer, etc). My stand was custom built by my father for this tank, which is the primary reason for wanting to keep it. However, if it would work better as a freshwater tank, I'm perfectly happy with that also. He is a big fan of Jack Dempsey's, so it sounds like a perfect plan also.

I may also start out with a Fish Only tank as I'm unsure what type of coral I want and as Reefneck has pointed out going with a mixed tank is just asking for trouble.

Sitaga

[TheOldSalt]

It's that they have different needs and get in each other's ways, you see. A mixed tank is doable, but you have to fully understand the dynamics involved and know how to work with them.

"The Reef Aquarium, Volume THREE" ( Spung/DelBeek ) is a very good book for a guy contemplating the construction of a new reef setup. It goes into great detail about all the various types of reef setups, and compares and contrasts them, and gives you all the real nuts and bolts info you need to build the system of your choice. It doesn't cover much about the critters like most other reefkeeping books, but that's why it can cover all the stuff usually left out of all the other books. It's kinda pricey, but Amazon had them on sale the last I checked.
The Fenner/Calfo book "Invertebrates" is another very good book indeed, and pretty much a must-have for any would-be reefkeeper. It is also one of the most truly useful reef books on the market at present, and it makes a good companion to the first book, each covering the stuff largely omitted by the other while re-enforcing the things they share with a different angle.

[Sitaga]

Currently I have "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" on order from Amazon. I can't want to get it and dive in. I also have a few other books listed to purchase in the future and will add the books you recommend to that list. Thanks for the help!

[leveldrummer]

dont get me wrong, im not trying to talk you out of doing the 55, its a fine tank! i was just saying that IF you were going to get another, upgrade! lol.

i would suggest that as you start your reef, go with soft corals first. some simple things like mushrooms, zoanthids, maybe some leathers, and then spread you wings and try a few large polyp stonies. save the sps for when you REALLY have a firm grasp on what your doing. its really not as hard as you may think, it just takes alot of preperation, and a good but of knowhow, and that is really hard to learn unless you get your feet wet first. your doing great so far, but you still have a bit to go, and that will come fast once you start tinkering with stuff.