New Saltwater Tank

[fishbguy]

Okay...I FINALLY decided what to do with my 40 tall....Saltwater. I decided this because it is a larger (for me) tank, but it doesn't have as great of surface area. So ledd water will evaporate, keeping my water quality better. (I think)

Anyway, I've been reading, asking questions, etc. for a few days getting stuff ready, deciding what to buy, etc. So here is an idea of what I want to buy for the tank. BTW, I'm not planning on a sump or a fuge.

EQUIPMENT:

For the Protien skimmer, which I want, I was suggested the smallest bakpak, or the Corallife Needle Wheel. I think I'm going to go with the corallife. I'm looking for cheap(I know, I know, nothing is cheap about saltwater) but still good quality, so it looks like the cheapest I'm gonna get is about 80 bockaroos...lol

I already bought the filter. A penguin 200, the one rated for a 50 gallon tank. I bought this already because I was planning on freshwater, but now I can't return it, because It's already been used.

I'm still not sur about the powerhead I want. Just something small and cheap that can shoot water from the suraface to the bottom of the tank.

For lighting, I'm planning on just a 36 watt, florescent, T-5. I'm not getting any corals of anemones as of yet. I can always get those later when I can afford their lighting...lol As far as stocking goes, I'm planning on fish, live rock, and a few snails, starfish, featherduster worms, bit I'll talk about those later.

For the substrate, I'm planning on just live argonite sand. 30-40 pounds. Less if I can. I'll prolly buy 20 lbs, because that's the size bag t comes in, the see how much that gives me, then buy more later if I need it.

Live rock of course. Not alot, just enough to give me a good looking aquascape, but no too much or high. I'm not interested in that many fish. Just a few.

I think that covers my equipment and stuff. I'll prolly think of somethinf later...lol

STOCKING:

I've compiled a list of fish that I like, that I believe will be suitable for my tank. I'll post them later tho, right now, I just want my equipment so I can start cycling. But I MUST have at least a pair of firefish...lol I'm also interested in clownfish, cardinal fish, and gobies.

For my clean up crew, I would like to stay away from hermit crabs. 5 or so turbo snails, a brittle star, maybe an emerald crab or 2, and after 6 months to a year, I would like to get some feather duster worms. I'm also looking into coral banded shrimps. Any thoughts on these?

I think I've covered everything I can think of so far. I know I'll think of other stuff, but My brain's fried right now...lol between school and this...

*insert exploding brain sounds here*

thanks alot,

Andrew

[Ice]

I would go with the corallife needlewheel skimmer.
Your LR is your natural bio-filtration, so I would try to go with a sump if possible. If you can afford it, get a canister filter instead and use the HOB filter to your QT tank.

Your fish wish list sounds good but ...
I don't think you can have 2 firefish in same tank.
A single pair of clowns would be good to have.
A single goby is also good. Never have 2 to a tank. They fight with each other for territory.
Cardinalfish is good too. Just be careful not to overstock the tank.
Sounds like you're doing good with equipment and fish choices.

[Damon]

I think you are thinking of a different firefish Ice. I'm GUESSING he is talking about the dartfish. Schooling peaceful, reef safe fish
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/mari...c/FireFish.php

[fishbguy]

I can't afford a canister. And I don't want a sump.

Yes, I'm talking about the fire dartfish...lol

Here's my list of fish that I like. Please feel free to tell me which ones won't work, why they won't, etc.

Firefish-the dartfish
Percula clownfish
Green Chromis
Blue Chromis
Pajama Cardinalfish
Bangii Cardinalfish
Royal Gramma
Bicolor blenny
6 line wrasse
threafin fairy wrasse
yellowheaded jawfish
Courtjester Goby
Neon Goby
Yellow watchman goby
Scooter Blenny
Midas Blenny
Mandarianfish
Clown Goby
Zebra Goby

I read somewhere that only one wrasse per tank is good, and since mine is so small, i think that's a good idea to follow, so I think I like the 6-line best. Also, with the bi-color blenny and the royal gamma, since they both look alike, it's one or the other, and I like the gramma. Like I said earler, i NEED to have the firefish...lol so, here's what i'm planning as far as stocking thus far,

2x-firefish
1x-royal gramma
1x-6 line wrasse
3x-green chromis
1x-yellow watchman goby
1x-pajama cardinal fish

I think that's alot, but I'm not sure. What do y'all think? I'm also not sure about teh chromises. The tank might be a little short.

What does everyone know about Sponges, sea cucumbers, and flame scallops?

[flamingo]

Firefish-the dartfish-should be fine if you stick with a pair.
Percula clownfish- would be alright as a singular fish, or a pair without the firefish.
Green Chromis- Good beginner fish if you dedicate the tank to them.
Blue Chromis- same as above.
Pajama Cardinalfish- skittish and shy, better in groups.
Bangii Cardinalfish- good beginner fish, tank would be best left to them.
Royal Gramma- hardy, though tends to be aggressive.
Bicolor blenny- so so.
6 line wrasse- not a beginner fish, tank needs to be dedicated to producing amphipods and copepods.
threafin fairy wrasse- can be sensitive, wouldn't start with it.
yellowheaded jawfish- alright if acclimated correctly, a good sized sand bed, and provided shelter (would also add the burden, of taking care of a slight DSB)
Courtjester Goby- would be "ok" but wouldn't start with it either.
Neon Goby- great starter goby.
Yellow watchman goby- alright if acclimated correctly. Needs a good area to itself.
Scooter Blenny- an easier dragonet, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Midas Blenny- not sure on it's care.
Mandarianfish- dragonet, definitely not a begnner fish. Needs a dedicated tank to it's feeding habits.
Clown Goby- great beginner goby if fed well.
Zebra Goby- also a dartfish, wouldn't recommend it for a 40 gallon personally.
__________
Just a blunt statement of the fish you listed .

I would personally go with a single fire fish, and a clown myself.
You might be able to get away with a pair of firefish, that is, if they group together without problems.

Coral Banded shrimp, sponges, cucumbers, and scallops are all a suggested no from me also.

[fishbguy]

so, how does this sound?

1x-firefish
1x-percula clown
3x-neon goby
3x-bluee/green chromis OR pajama clown
5x-turbo snail
1x-brittle star
2x-emerald crab
Feather dusters (after a 6-12 months)

And MAYBE, after my copepod population builds up, in about a year or 2, a mandarianfish

[flamingo]

Stick with the firefish, the clownfish, or the gobies.
Just ignore the chromis, mandarins, or cardinals right now .
I would say... fire, clown, and a goby pair? Wouldn't be overstocking, and you have a good combo of fish already.

Otherwise, your invert stocking sounds alright. But remember, keep an eye on the emerald crab.

[fishbguy]

What about a pair of gobies, a pair of clowns, and the firefish?

since it would be overstocking, would it hurt to have one more clown?

[Ice]

Don't 2 gobies tend to fight ?

I'd go with a pair of clowns (1 regular Ocellaris clown & 1 B&W Ocellaris clown would be cool)
1 firefish
1 Royal Gramma
1 Clown Goby

[flamingo]

Neon gobies are grouping fish, unlike certain other species that will fight or steal for a territory.

Maybe the clown pair, the firefish, and the goby pair MIGHT work.
Though, I would consider the pair of clowns the highest on the bioload scale, etc. And worry about them first. If you have three clowns, it usually doesn't work out, only in larger tanks in most cases. Two will pair up, and the other will be harassed.

[leveldrummer]

look at the aqua c remora skimmers, they seem much better for a hang on application.

[fishbguy]

I'm thinking that I would like to wait till I get corals and anenomes before I get the clowns. I just have a had time trying to picture the clowns without an anenome. Also, for the firefish, the more I've been watching them, the more I see that they just hover right out side their little hole in the rock. But zebra gobies(zebra dartgobies) are much above the rock, typically at the surface, but the tank they're in is shallow . So now I'm stuck with just the neon gobies. I would like to add a pair of zebra gobies, just for a little action, and they look cool too, espacially when they fan they're fins....lol O even a trio of the zebra gobies if possble, but they'll prolly fight the odd fish out. Then, just for a bit of color, either a royal gramma, or a orchid dottyback, but not both, seeing as how they're really aggressive to eachother.

2x-Zebra Goby
2x-Neon Goby
1x-Royal Gramma/Orchid Dottyback.

I'm thinking that this set up will help the tank look stocked, but still give me room to add a scooter blenny or a mandarian fish a long time down the road. All invert stocking will remain the same.

Since I'm going fishonly, I was told that I wouldn't need a protien skimmer fromt he start as long as I made my water changes. So, I'll wait till Christmas, and get the protein skimmer from Santa Until then, I'll be looking at all the different skimmers, deciding which would be best, not caring about the price, cause I'm not buying it anyway.

[TheOldSalt]

Do yourself a big favor and just forget the anemones. Anemones are expert-only critters which need pretty much perfect tanks to survive, and those tanks should be well established at that, so adding an anemone before the fish is a good recipie for failure.

The general rule of thumb for SMALL dragonets is 40 lbs of live rock per fish. Just stop your planning for one for this tank and move on; you can't keep one in this setup without a lot of supplemental care, and that's precisely the main problem with these guys, namely, they don't generally eat things you try to feed them, and with all those other fish, even one that was a good eater would have too much competition.

Banggai cardinals are great looking and very easy to spawn, and the parents do the hard part for you. The fry are then easily sold for good enough money to make it worth the trouble and then some.

2 clowns is enough in a small tank like this one. Adding a 3rd would be a bad idea.

[fishbguy]

Okay...dragonettes are out.

I wasn't going to get an anemone. I said, MAYBE, once I get lights, like for corals and stuff, but that might be a LONG time from now, MAYBE.

I don't know where everyone is getting this 3rd clown thing. When did I saw a 3rd clown? Dylan told me, 1 firefish, 1 CLOWN, and the neon gobies. so I was wondering if I could add 1 more clown, to bring the total to 2 CLOWN, NOT 3!!

Whats the best way to sex Banggai cardinals? I am interested in these.

I have to pass a history test, which I should be takeing later this week, so hopefully, I'll get to setting it up this weekend!!

[flamingo]

Andaroo, word of advice, don't yell at the people trying to help you .
It's getting VERY confusing trying to keep up with the answers, seeing as your constantly changing what you want, etc. I would seriously wait it out a few weeks, do research on saltwater tanks to begin with, then come up with the list of fish that you "must have" not the ones that you just "want," so we can go from there- rather than going in a circle with 20 different species of fish.

Like I said with the zebra goby earlier (dartfish) is that I wouldn't recommend it for a 40g. They may not be the "largest" fish, but they can reach a good size, and are actually quite active when out of their cave. I've seen them fair better in 75 gallon+ tanks.

Take it easy, and WAIT to set it up. That's the best advice I can give you right now. You should already have your "entire" plan out in front of you, gone over, checked, etc. before you even consider putting water in that tank. There are certain people that research for a good number of years, before they finally take the plunge. As a general warning, cases where others throw the tank together, just because they want it up NOW, usually bring up the disaster threads you see around the forums.

Do you know the basics of salinity?
Buffering?
Filtration?
Acclimation?

If not, than grab a good book, or heck, i'll send you one, and read!

[oliesminis]

i know im probably a bit behind but good luck hope it goes well saltwater is to much for me now but hopefully it will work for you

[fishbguy]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like I was yelling, I honestly wasn't.

About the fish, your right, and I will most deffaintly be changing my mind again in the near future...lol At the moment, setting the thing up, with all the rock and everything, will just about drain my budget, with maybe 10 bucks or so to spare, and with all the fish, no matter which ones I eventually plan on getting, they'll all cost at least 15 bucks...

I will gladly take any books you will be willing to ship to me.

EDIT: I didn't see your post there olie, sorry...lol Thanks

[TheOldSalt]

Banggais are mouthbrooders, and the way to sex them is to look at the shape of their jawlines. Like many oher mouthbrooding fish, the male will have a larger "buccal cavity" or in plainer english, a bigger mouth. The face will look very slightly more "boxy" or squared off, like it has fatter cheeks and higher cheekbones.
This takes a bit of practice to get the hang of seeing, but in a tank full of many specimens, it shouldn't be too tricky to see the difference after awhile.
Banggais are kinda scrappy among themselves. A 40 long would be better for them than a 40 tall, but if you can get a pair they'll be ok.

[fishbguy]

okay...thanks alot TOS....Like I said earlier, I'll have a few months to decide on my final stocking...so I'll have plenty of time to get my techneque down.

[Fishfirst]

oh... and always get captive bred banggais as the wild counter parts are not very hardy. The only problem with getting captive bred is actually finding a female!