live rock/base rock

leveldrummer · 11-23-2005, 02:26 PM

i know this is probably a silly question, and also would be easily answered if i did more lookin around but im lazy. haha what is live about live rock, and if i get however many pounds of live rock, plus some base rock, does the base eventually become live? can someone give me a couple hints through all this mumbo jumbo? nice little outline to follow?

**Fishfirst** · 11-24-2005, 02:03 AM

liverock = rock with live stuff growing on it... lol well kinda, its got a bunch of that good bacteria in it, plus some algae, maybe some sponges, corals, and pods and such. Yes if you seed base rock with liverock you get liverock but only after months of being together. If you don't mind not having good liverock filtration for a while, this is the way to go. 1 part liverock to 4 parts base rock.

leveldrummer · 11-24-2005, 06:10 PM

will the live rock stay alive with fish in the tank? i read somewhere that fish "eat" the live rock or chip away at it. im sure the bacteria will stay but what about the rest of the stuff?

flamingo · 11-24-2005, 08:33 PM

The only fish that will actually ruin your live rock on purpose are some types of parrotfish because they eat it and coral.

Other fish may eat macroalgae or crabs or whatever critters that come on it but that's about it.

For the base and all that just get a bunch of cheap base rock and just cover it with a little fancy live rock for looks. Any porous rocks that are in a tank for a while will get bacteria in time. So for example, the chunk of tufa rock that's been in my tank for a while could be called live rock because it has bacteria and copepods in it. Live rock is called well.. live rock because of the bacteria and various organisms like sponges and crabs and stuff like that are found on the rock.

Your live rock won't be eaten or anyhting like that. The only thing that can really "kill" live rock is long fw dips or something like that so theres absolutley no worry.

**Fishfirst** · 11-27-2005, 08:48 PM

Most fish won't eat liverock but the actual organisms on the liverock instead. Most notibly sponges, algae, pods, and corals especially with species of angelfishes, butterflyfishes, dragonets (eat pods), sometimes tangs, and other species.

leveldrummer · 11-28-2005, 12:55 PM

but do they eat enough off the rock to kill it? or will it replenish quick enough to keep up with these fish?

Reefneck · 11-28-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

but do they eat enough off the rock to kill it? or will it replenish quick enough to keep up with these fish?

Mandarinfish will eat so much of the copepods in liverock that it most likely can not keep up. Live Copepods can be purchased from most LFS's and added to your tank to help replenish.

Many other fishes do eat the animals from the live rock and the Live rock most often can not replenish fast enough by itself unless you have very few (1-2) fish that eat the critters and a LOT of live rock in a big tank.

leveldrummer · 11-28-2005, 01:55 PM

if the live rock is very beneficial to the stability of the tank. is it usually better to stay away from the fish that will eat from it? or is it just easier to replenish it yourself?

Reefneck · 11-28-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

if the live rock is very beneficial to the stability of the tank. is it usually better to stay away from the fish that will eat from it? or is it just easier to replenish it yourself?

IMHO I plan to only keep the single Mandarinfish I have and not have any others to compete for the Copepods.

Unless you just fall in love with a fish such as mine (My wife did) I would just avoid them. They are hard to keep because of their feeding habits.

leveldrummer · 11-28-2005, 03:04 PM

i plan on getting all the beginer fish that are nice and simple to keep, flake eaters and such, ive done a little looking around, made a little list, but i dont really know what all was on it anymore, i have so much more to look at but it was mainly gobies, a clown or two,maybe a flame hawk, a tang or butterfly. any one know how a mix like this will do together in a 46 gallon tank?

Reefneck · 11-28-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

i plan on getting all the beginer fish that are nice and simple to keep, flake eaters and such, ive done a little looking around, made a little list, but i dont really know what all was on it anymore, i have so much more to look at but it was mainly gobies, a clown or two,maybe a flame hawk, a tang or butterfly. any one know how a mix like this will do together in a 46 gallon tank?

Gobies will fight in small tanks if more than one is in it.

and your tank is definately too small for a Tang. They need long tanks to swim. Clowns should be fine if introduced together or mated pair.

Butterflys are not Reef Safe.

Hawk fish should be ok but not 100% sure on that one.

flamingo · 11-28-2005, 03:46 PM

Some fish may eat some of the critters but it won't be a huge problem.

And I definitely don't suggest a mandarin as a first fish. If you do want one let your live rock mature a little and only have one per tank unless they are mated. If you want some info on them just pm me and i'll give you a link to a profile I wrote on them.

A lot of gobies will quarrel with eachother. If it's a watchman goby or something like that than it will be aproblem, but some gobies can be housed with eachother but read up on it a bit. And like they said a 46 gallon tank is too small for a tang, 75 gallons is a complete minimum for most.

leveldrummer · 11-28-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Butterflys are not Reef Safe.

now im all confused again. are you saying that putting live rock in a tank makes it a reef tank? i was planning on doing fish only, i thought that live rock and sand, were simply covered in beneficial bacteria and critters that would help the ammonia cycle, so am i wrong or right?

Reefneck · 11-28-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leveldrummer

now im all confused again. are you saying that putting live rock in a tank makes it a reef tank? i was planning on doing fish only, i thought that live rock and sand, were simply covered in beneficial bacteria and critters that would help the ammonia cycle, so am i wrong or right?

My bad! I did not mean to confuse you. If you are doing a FOWLR tank then the Butterfly won't be a problem.

Just not safe in reefs. Sorry to twist you up there.

And it will help speed up the cycle as long as it is fully "Cured" Live Rock.

leveldrummer · 11-28-2005, 07:18 PM

what is the process of curing live rock?? and how reputable are stores in being honest about that? is there a way to tell how "cured" it is? can i finish curing live rock myself??

flamingo · 11-29-2005, 05:23 AM

Curing means setting it in a big buvket or some other container with a little filtration and letting all the critters that died decompose so there's no chance of an ammonia spike. Live rock should be cured no matter where you get it from in my opinion. Many people won't even know what curing is so a lot of them aren't to be trusted. Some people also keeps theres very porrly and it gets all gunky and critters die so theres another reason too.

leveldrummer · 11-29-2005, 12:14 PM

arent you gonna loose alot of the life in live rock as you transport it? will it have to cure a little once you get it in the tank? how the heck do you even buy the stuff? what do they usually ship it in? i know you can put 20 lbs of rock in a little platic bag full of water?

**Fishfirst** · 11-29-2005, 01:26 PM

You will lose a little if you transport it... but that is to be expected... however, if you had select the pieces it can be minimal. I think we are getting way to caught up on the liverock part here... I would instead buy your liverock, cure it IN the tank, and then add fish and inverts... if you have to add a few pieces later then so be it... it won't matter whether a few organisms die as long as you monitor the water for two weeks after you add it. Mostly you won't see anything happen, especially if it is one or two pieces... if you have to add a lot... I would cure it in a rubbermaid container or something outside of the tank however. So... in summary my recommendations are-

- get liverock before adding fish
- fish/inverts won't eat enough organisms off the liverock to make it "die" unless you choose fish/inverts without research.
- add one or two pieces at a time after adding fish so you don't overload the tank with the dieoff
- I would bring 5 gallon buckets to purchase the rock, make them wrap it in wet (seawater) paper towel, or submerge important pieces with some interesting stuff on them.
- If you buy online, go to a repuitable dealer such as www.liverocks.com (oldsalt you have another good one), they will send it to you in a styrofoam box I believe with moist papertowel around it.

leveldrummer · 11-29-2005, 01:33 PM

thank you very much for all the info. im sure i sound like a jackass, but books only get you so far if you dont really understand them. thanks to everyone for the help. and sorry in advance for all my other stupid questions haha.

leveldrummer · 11-29-2005, 01:35 PM

the inverts your talking about are snails and crabs and such right? shrimp, clams, and other inverts are harder to take care of and need other lighting?

11-23-2005, 02:26 PM	#1
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	live rock/base rock i know this is probably a silly question, and also would be easily answered if i did more lookin around but im lazy. haha what is live about live rock, and if i get however many pounds of live rock, plus some base rock, does the base eventually become live? can someone give me a couple hints through all this mumbo jumbo? nice little outline to follow?

11-24-2005, 02:03 AM	#2
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,506	liverock = rock with live stuff growing on it... lol well kinda, its got a bunch of that good bacteria in it, plus some algae, maybe some sponges, corals, and pods and such. Yes if you seed base rock with liverock you get liverock but only after months of being together. If you don't mind not having good liverock filtration for a while, this is the way to go. 1 part liverock to 4 parts base rock. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-24-2005, 08:33 PM	#4
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,897	The only fish that will actually ruin your live rock on purpose are some types of parrotfish because they eat it and coral. Other fish may eat macroalgae or crabs or whatever critters that come on it but that's about it. For the base and all that just get a bunch of cheap base rock and just cover it with a little fancy live rock for looks. Any porous rocks that are in a tank for a while will get bacteria in time. So for example, the chunk of tufa rock that's been in my tank for a while could be called live rock because it has bacteria and copepods in it. Live rock is called well.. live rock because of the bacteria and various organisms like sponges and crabs and stuff like that are found on the rock. Your live rock won't be eaten or anyhting like that. The only thing that can really "kill" live rock is long fw dips or something like that so theres absolutley no worry. __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

11-27-2005, 08:48 PM	#5
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,506	Most fish won't eat liverock but the actual organisms on the liverock instead. Most notibly sponges, algae, pods, and corals especially with species of angelfishes, butterflyfishes, dragonets (eat pods), sometimes tangs, and other species. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-28-2005, 03:46 PM	#12
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,897	Some fish may eat some of the critters but it won't be a huge problem. And I definitely don't suggest a mandarin as a first fish. If you do want one let your live rock mature a little and only have one per tank unless they are mated. If you want some info on them just pm me and i'll give you a link to a profile I wrote on them. A lot of gobies will quarrel with eachother. If it's a watchman goby or something like that than it will be aproblem, but some gobies can be housed with eachother but read up on it a bit. And like they said a 46 gallon tank is too small for a tang, 75 gallons is a complete minimum for most. __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

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11-24-2005, 06:10 PM	#3
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	will the live rock stay alive with fish in the tank? i read somewhere that fish "eat" the live rock or chip away at it. im sure the bacteria will stay but what about the rest of the stuff?

11-28-2005, 12:55 PM	#6
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	but do they eat enough off the rock to kill it? or will it replenish quick enough to keep up with these fish?

11-28-2005, 01:55 PM	#8
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	if the live rock is very beneficial to the stability of the tank. is it usually better to stay away from the fish that will eat from it? or is it just easier to replenish it yourself?

11-28-2005, 03:04 PM	#10
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	i plan on getting all the beginer fish that are nice and simple to keep, flake eaters and such, ive done a little looking around, made a little list, but i dont really know what all was on it anymore, i have so much more to look at but it was mainly gobies, a clown or two,maybe a flame hawk, a tang or butterfly. any one know how a mix like this will do together in a 46 gallon tank?

11-28-2005, 07:18 PM	#15
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	what is the process of curing live rock?? and how reputable are stores in being honest about that? is there a way to tell how "cured" it is? can i finish curing live rock myself??

11-29-2005, 05:23 AM	#16
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,897	Curing means setting it in a big buvket or some other container with a little filtration and letting all the critters that died decompose so there's no chance of an ammonia spike. Live rock should be cured no matter where you get it from in my opinion. Many people won't even know what curing is so a lot of them aren't to be trusted. Some people also keeps theres very porrly and it gets all gunky and critters die so theres another reason too. __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

11-29-2005, 12:14 PM	#17
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	arent you gonna loose alot of the life in live rock as you transport it? will it have to cure a little once you get it in the tank? how the heck do you even buy the stuff? what do they usually ship it in? i know you can put 20 lbs of rock in a little platic bag full of water?

11-29-2005, 01:26 PM	#18
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,506	You will lose a little if you transport it... but that is to be expected... however, if you had select the pieces it can be minimal. I think we are getting way to caught up on the liverock part here... I would instead buy your liverock, cure it IN the tank, and then add fish and inverts... if you have to add a few pieces later then so be it... it won't matter whether a few organisms die as long as you monitor the water for two weeks after you add it. Mostly you won't see anything happen, especially if it is one or two pieces... if you have to add a lot... I would cure it in a rubbermaid container or something outside of the tank however. So... in summary my recommendations are- - get liverock before adding fish - fish/inverts won't eat enough organisms off the liverock to make it "die" unless you choose fish/inverts without research. - add one or two pieces at a time after adding fish so you don't overload the tank with the dieoff - I would bring 5 gallon buckets to purchase the rock, make them wrap it in wet (seawater) paper towel, or submerge important pieces with some interesting stuff on them. - If you buy online, go to a repuitable dealer such as www.liverocks.com (oldsalt you have another good one), they will send it to you in a styrofoam box I believe with moist papertowel around it. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

11-29-2005, 01:33 PM	#19
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	thank you very much for all the info. im sure i sound like a jackass, but books only get you so far if you dont really understand them. thanks to everyone for the help. and sorry in advance for all my other stupid questions haha.

11-29-2005, 01:35 PM	#20
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933	the inverts your talking about are snails and crabs and such right? shrimp, clams, and other inverts are harder to take care of and need other lighting?

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