marine set-up Q?

[Arlene]

Hi All
I have decided to setup a marine aquarium, i have kept 2 FW aquariums now for just about a year and i have always fancied trying the marine. I have 120L FW aquarium up and running and a 60L empty (not new) i was planning to transfer the water and fish from the 120 into the 60 and use the 120 for the marine (after a good clean). The gravel i have is fine gravel, could i use this gravel in the marine with a layer of live sand on top? I have had no diseases in the tank. I wont be doing this for another 5 weeks as i am buying all the equipment weekly. Also how many fish do you think i could keep in the 120..i plan to get 8kg of live rock..is this enough? The fish i would like are: tangs, damsels.
Thanx.

[Fishfirst]

well welcome to your foray in the salty sea. First and formost is your question about using aquarium gravel for substrait, I'd opt for just argonite based sand and a few pounds or kg's of live sand. Also if you plan on keeping liverock your going to need some higher powered lights, I'd suggest pc's if you don't mind not getting corals and anemones (anemones are tough to keep and probably shouldn't be in aquariums like ours) also a qt tank (a 10 gallon basic setup with nothing but a filter, heater, and a pvc pipe works well and is cheap) should be high on your list of purchases. I would also consider a skimmer.

Your fish choice. Keeping sw is all about compatebility and tank size. First off you mention tangs.... interestingly enough, you picked one of the most active and larger fish in the marine hobby. Tangs get around 8-20 inches in length and you should have at least 90 gallons for the smallest sized ones. Whats even worse is, small tangs have a dismal survival record, so growing them out and giving them away should be avioded. Secondly, damsels, although beautiful when young, often turn into brown, black, and gray fish as adults, and whats worse, is there additude and territoriality. They can harrass most other fish to death. I'd stay away from damsels.

Luckily, there are plenty of species that you could keep.

Check out:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=755 <-- tank bred, very hardy
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p....cfm?pCatId=53 <-- one of my personal favs.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p....cfm?pCatId=85 <-- schooling species
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=1636 <-- especially the firefish and purple firefish
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=1852 <-- I love the yellow watchman goby
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=1850 <-- anything but the catalina gobies
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/s...fm?pCatId=1637 <-- jawfish are intersting
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=113 <-- keep singly (they get mean to eachother when they grow up)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=438 <-- one of the biggest fish I can suggest

Oh and don't forget the invertibrates that keep your tank cleaner
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=696
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=621
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...fm?pCatId=1963
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=623
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=735
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...fm?pCatId=1159 <-- actually you could buy some from me if you want .25 cents each plus shipping.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...fm?pCatId=1133
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...cfm?pCatId=563

[Arlene]

Thanks for your reply. I have already priced the equipment i will need:

protein skimmer, external filter, powerhead, heater, timer and lightsx2 1 white 1 blue.

I will check out the fish you have suggested as i havnt made up my mind about the fish yet i would need to investigate them further.
Thanx

Thanks for the offer of you selling me some but since i live in Scotland ..i dont think its such a good idea lol.

[Fishfirst]

oh, right, metric, doh! here's the thing about lights... you need more than N.O. florescents to keep liverock healthy. I would definately consider PC lights or "Power Compact" lights. This will bring up the intensity of the bulb and allow you to keep liverock kickin'

[Arlene]

I will look into those...thankyou.

Heres a question that i didnt think of until now. You said (something like) SINCE you are keeping liverock...... I thought to go marine you HAD to have liverock? I always just assumed this and didnt look into it. Is this right?

[Arlene]

Me again...sorry.

Ok, i have managed to grasp everything for this set-up...querentine(sp) tank for fish..gravel/sand..protein skimmer..external filter...powerhead...live rock im just going to go half real and half fake. I dont really want live rock but i am going to have it since it benefits the fishies.
The thing i cannot get my tiny brain around is the lights.

You see on my aquarium i have built in beech unit and hood. When i set it up as FW i had to screw brackets either end of the hood for the bulb. Now...i know that doing things right outweighs the look factor, but i really like the hood plus the fact that i have paid for it. Is there no way i can use the hood and buy other bulbs to use? Or do i have to buy one of these over hanging light things lol. The bulb i have just now is 18watt Arcadia tropical lamp. Arcadia also sells Marine blue actinic 18watt and Marine white lamp 9500k it says thast you can use both for marine fish and corals??
Fishfirst ....i know you have already told me i need pc lighting and i appreciate you helping me...i just thought i would ask this question before i go out and buy something that i dont really want. Also i dont want to be drilling holes into the ceiling.

Thankyou.

[Arlene]

And one other thing..Is a cowfish ok to keep in this kind of set-up?

Thankyou

[Fishfirst]

pc lighting comes in fixtures retros and hoods... the thing to look at is how many watts you've got. Usually liverock is fine under 2-4 watts per gallon of water (of coarse it largely depends on other things too such as spectrum lumenosity, how deep the tank is, ect but really watts is a good indicator of how much light you really have, and more light the better) You can probably use the lighting you have now + the pc's, so your fixture isn't useless.

Cowfish, although very interesting, generally aren't good choices for fish tanks. The problem with cowfish are, they secrete toxins when they are stressed, dying, or dead. This can completely whipe out a system... I even had a reefer tell me that the tank he had never got rid of the toxin and every fish he put in there from then on died within hours (he cleaned it, ran carbon ect) Sooooo, if you are willing to take the risk, then by all means, cowfish are very cool fish and sometimes well worth the risk. That is, after you get your feet wet in this stuff, it wouldn't be my first fish in the tank, and I'd probably wait till you have a larger tank, most cowfish get pretty big.

[Arlene]

When you say 2-4 watt per gal do you mean US gal or UK gal. Well anyway its 26.4 UK gal. Its 60cm deep. I will go to the shop tomorrow and see what kind of bulbs they have to offer me. I wont bother with the cowfish it was my 4 yr old son that was very keen on getting it, but i think i will just leave it for now.

Thanks again!! (sorry for all the Qs i just want to make sure i know what im doing)

[Arlene]

Ok...This could be a very silly question but ...
Do you wash live sand first before adding to aquarium?

I now have everything to set up marine aquarium except the lights (where i cant get anywhere) but wasnt sure about the sand.

Thanx.

[TheOldSalt]

NO!!!!!!
If you wash it, it won't be alive anymore.

[Fishfirst]

Yep, don't rinse it, its perfect the way it is! I'd put it in a cup that you've rinced out and dried, then scoop up the sand and put your hand over the mouth of the cup. Then put the live sand down on the bottom of your tank and release your hand and let the sand settle at the very bottom instead of letting it float all over the tank by just dumping it in.

[Arlene]

Thanx...that is what i thought but i was just checking.

[Arlene]

Ok...I went to the only marine shop in my city i spoke to the assistant who has a marine tank at home, he walked me round and filled my basket with this and that. I have so far...sander maxi 300 protein skimmer, interpet air pump, aquarjet 600 powerjet, Aquapro 740lph external filter. I still have to get some live sand /sand, live rock and lights 2x39watt t5 lights. (i have ordered the lights and sand)
Thats it? I couldnt help feeling he was on a selling mission so if theres anything there anyone sees fault with let me know..its all unopened therfor returnable.

Also Fishfirst..you mentioned the way of putting the sand into the tank without it floating about in the tank..i put the sand in before the water?? No? Maybe i read your post wrong.
Thanx for your help.

[Arlene]

Anyone????

[TheOldSalt]

They all sound lovely, but I'm not familiar with those european brands so I don't know anything about them.
Those lights will be okay for fish, but not for many live rock type critters/algae. You might get red slime as a result, but probably not.

[Arlene]

Well...I only have 1 marine fish store in my city so today i drove to Edinburgh to see about lights and sand. I did a google on the net and saw what looked a great marine store called the aquatic centre. After 1and a half hour drive i found it. They didnt have a clue!! First they tried to sell mea 4 foot light for a 3ft tank then a small one. When i questined the 2x24watt bulbsfor it, he told me they would be fine for keeping live rock and soft corals. After the drive i was a bit gutted and decided to make my way back home empty handed. On the road home i passed a shop called Aquatic Rooms...wow they were much better and new exactly what they were talking about. So i ordered my lights and sand for picking up some day next week. I always expected staff who work in a specialised field new their stuff...obviously i was wrong.

[Fishfirst]

put water in before the livesand. Then use a cup and lower it with your hand on top of it so it won't go into suspension. If you just dump it in, a lot of the smaller particles will be in the water column and can cloud your water for a few days.

[Arlene]

Ok...Thanx for the help...It is much appreciated.

[Arlene]

I am just about ready to set up my tank. The local marine shop is about a 15 minute drive from me..they sell RO water and pre salted RO water. I was planning on using their salted water to set the tank up then after that salt my own water for water changes..but here is the thing...How do i initially fill the tank? I will have to buy water at about 20 litres at a time as that will be all i can carry...therfor this will take me 6 journeys. Is this right? Or am i missing some solution? How did yous fill your tank for first use?