Look what sick people do!!!

[Betta5]

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=165369

We need to stop this.

[Ringo]

The category was under "Entertainment"....

[PaPeRo]

Betta fighting has been in existence for centuries. It's like c0ck fighting. We have no right to stop it. We are not the animal police. Personally I wouldn't do it with my Bettas but it is what it is. These are called Siamese Fighting Fish for a reason. Maybe the Great U S of A should stop importing Bettas from Asia since Americans can't handle these Asian fish and what they're bred to do? These fish fight each other in the wild too, should we also stop that? Or maybe we should stop those mean sick people from feeding their big agressive fish live fish?

[Zoe]

The problem here is that two fish are being placed in a small area. Neither has the choice the backdown or leave, and there are no leaves or rocks blocking each others' view. Just because something was created or developed or altered to suite a certain purpose, it doesn't mean that that purpose in an acceptable one. Is beating someone to a pulp acceptable because brass knuckles were invented for it?

Obviously there is a grey area. Is it ok to feed a large fish live fish? Probably, but not if you're doing it for entertainment purposes.

And by the way, we DO have a right to stop such practices. C0ck fights were made illegal and bettas are, in most states, protected under the same 'fighting animals' law. No, WE personally are not the 'animal police' - but we have the right to report such behaviour to the animal police, who do exist! With the sole purpose of putting an end to this type of practice.

[PaPeRo]

Originally Posted by Zoe

The problem here is that two fish are being placed in a small area. Neither has the choice the backdown or leave, and there are no leaves or rocks blocking each others' view.

To some it's a problem to others it's not. Depends on where you live and who you ask. Eating dogs or horses is a problem if done in the US, it's not a problem in some countries.

Just because something was created or developed or altered to suite a certain purpose, it doesn't mean that that purpose in an acceptable one.

Whether it is acceptable or not is not for you to decide.

Is beating someone to a pulp acceptable because brass knuckles were invented for it?

Actually beating someone to a pulp for sport is LEGAL in the US. Ever heard of BOXING? UFC?

Obviously there is a grey area. Is it ok to feed a large fish live fish? Probably, but not if you're doing it for entertainment purposes.

The end result is the same regardless if it was for entertainment or not. What if I also find entertainment in feeding a my large fish small live fish? Can I be arrested? LMAO!!! What if I find it entertaining when feeding a snake a live mouse? What if I like to feed my big Oscar live Bettas?

And by the way, we DO have a right to stop such practices. C0ck fights were made illegal and bettas are, in most states, protected under the same 'fighting animals' law. No, WE personally are not the 'animal police' - but we have the right to report such behaviour to the animal police, who do exist! With the sole purpose of putting an end to this type of practice.

Yes because fighting animals for sport is horrible while fighting humans for sport is not.

[Zoe]

To some it's a problem to others it's not. Depends on where you live and who you ask. Eating dogs or horses is a problem if done in the US, it's not a problem in some countries.

Definitely. But dog fighting is illegal and so is horse fighting. In most countries. In the states people just don't like the thought of eating 'pet' animals.

Whether it is acceptable or not is not for you to decide.

Certainly, it is. No, I'm not the one who will make every law and every decision for all of mankind, but I am part of the human population, and without getting existential on you, mankind does pretty much control the world (for better or for worse). I'm a pretty moral person. And most people would agree with me on this point - and that's exactly why c0ck fighting, betta fighting, dog fighting, etc, is illegal.

Actually beating someone to a pulp for sport is LEGAL in the US. Ever heard of BOXING? UFC?
Yes because fighting animals for sport is horrible while fighting humans for sport is not.

I don't necessarily agree with boxing, but I don't have any problems if people want to do it. If two guys feel like fighting each other, they can go ahead. They have the choice. They can take a dive. They can throw in the towel. They get paid. Putting two bettas in a bowl together is like forcing two children to box to the death.

The end result is the same regardless if it was for entertainment or not.

Yes, but the moral issue is whats at hand, here. And the feeding, well, the result is that a fish is well fed. This is the gray area I was refering to. Is eating meat ok? Well, we shan't start a whole vegetarian thing but you know what I mean

I mean, there's really no debate to be had here. Fish are alive, so are chickens and what-have-you. Causing them pain and distress for entertainment is not acceptable, and there's no questioning that. There are grey areas, sure, but the last line of this is that forcing two betta fish to fight in a tiny cup is wrong. And pretty much everyone knows that.

[PaPeRo]

I'm sorry but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Bettas are fighters, they CHOOSE to fight. Why do you think they try to fight each other even when they're in separate cups laid next to each other??? They WANT to fight, that's what they do just like boxers WANT to fight. When you have two dogs on leashes barking at each other, they WANT to fight. You are not forcing them to do anything. Some people like to watch Bettas fight just like some like to watch boxers fight. In fact in Thailand Betta fighting is a legal sport. They don't even fight to the death. The owner is allowed to throw in the flag.

Again I ask you what if I like to feed my big Oscar live Bettas? What are you going to do about it?

[Puffer Pita]

zoe, might as well give up. useless to argue with him/her.

[PaPeRo]

Thin skinned people shouldn't own pitbulls if they can't handle them fighting. They should stick with goldfish..or loaches.LOL.

[Ringo]

LOL Boxing and fighting is a big differance

I have boxed before, doing it willingly, and I have gotten into fights before (not online ) unwillingly

Bettas have no choice, cause its in there nature, and I doubt they think its fun.

[Gourami Swami]

Originally Posted by PaPeRo

Why do you think they try to fight each other even when they're in separate cups laid next to each other??? They WANT to fight, that's what they do just like boxers WANT to fight.

People Can CHOOSE to fight, and what you dont seem to understand is that bettas CANT. It is in their nature to be territorial, and if placed in a small arena, of course they will fight.

I agree with tina, It will be very hard to argue with somebody who knows nothing but assumes they know everything.

And btw, bettas rarely kill each other.

[Ringo]

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

It will be very hard to argue with somebody who knows nothing but assumes they know everything.

HEY!!!

[PaPeRo]

Originally Posted by SpoiledFishies

LOL Boxing and fighting is a big differance

I have boxed before, doing it willingly, and I have gotten into fights before (not online ) unwillingly

Bettas have no choice, cause its in there nature, and I doubt they think its fun.

I doubt Bettas even know what fun is.

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

People Can CHOOSE to fight, and what you dont seem to understand is that bettas CANT. It is in their nature to be territorial, and if placed in a small arena, of course they will fight.

I agree with tina, It will be very hard to argue with somebody who knows nothing but assumes they know everything.

And btw, bettas rarely kill each other.

Why don't Bettas fight other fish then if they don't choose to fight? It seems you don't know what you're talking about but think you do.

Let me give you a few pointers about Bettas. I have one in my tank with a small black Variatus. It doesn't fight with it, but when the Variatus started nipping at the Betta's tail the Betta fought back. So now everytime the Variatus gets near the Betta it flares up and scares away the Varitas, but it doesn't go chasing it forever trying to fight it.

Now let me ask you a question. Can the Betta choose to fight or not to fight? That's what I thought.

[Zoe]

Actually, bettas do fight other fish. They have been known to fight with guppies, goldfish; anything that has fins long enough to look like another male betta is flared at and fought with. That alone demonstrates that bettas don't go along thinking "hey, there's another male betta, I think I want to fight with him" - the sight of another "betta" triggers a behavioural, instinctive response to fight.



Anyhoo, methinks this fellow is just here to spout stupidities because he's bored. No one can possibly be this ignorant :P

[PaPeRo]

Read my experience with the Betta vs Variatus. I bet you thought you knew everything huh? Think again...hard this time.

Oh and one other thing which will be the final nail in your Betta knowledge coffin. I've kept two male Bettas in a tank and one of them chooses not to fight. While one flares the other one just ignores it and does his own thing. He's not scared either. Thanks for playing.


Again I ask you what if I like to feed my big Oscar live Bettas? What are you going to do about it Mr./Ms. Animal Police?

[aaa]

betta fighting is 2 betta put in a container and fight, of course there is not going to be some place for hide. but in a fight that is done in the right way, the fish will be out of there if he wants to retreat(when the fish start running away), the fish has lost. there is rarely death involve with betta fight, but they do get hurt. i am not against the fight that is done in the right way, but i do have problem that people fight their betta to death. the spirit of the fight is just a contest of 2 male's fighting ability and skill but not kill each other. i am not a fan of betta fight but i can live with it.

betta want to fight or not depend on their personality. some are aggressive and some are wuss. the reason betta attack other fish is because other fish went in his terriority. the betta just simply chase him out of there. betta will not waste extra energy to fight everything, but there is always exception to the case. some just want to stay away from trouble and some just want to go nuts over every little thing.

but anyway, if one doesn't fight betta to death, i don't think there is a big problem. even female guppy will fight other female to show each other who is the boss.

[Fishfirst]

PaPeRo... it is clear to me you have just answered these posts to get under everyone's skin. And frankly... you are doing a poor job of making yourself look like you have an ounce of intelligence. You are here by officially WARNED by the MOD team. An immediate Ban will be placed on you IP address if you continue to ignore animal rights, and continue with these stupid remarks.

[Gourami Swami]

You actually arent really making any sense. All your doing is claiming things, and ignoring that we have destroyed all of your solid arguments, which in truth werent that solid. The betta doesnt chase the variatus because its not a betta. As Zoe said, the betta doesnt fight another male betta for the heck of it, he would fight from his instincts. Bettas are NOT as smart as us, or even as smart as some other fish. Seeing a male betta triggers a territorial instinct.

[aaa]

Originally Posted by Gourami Swami

You actually arent really making any sense. All your doing is claiming things, and ignoring that we have destroyed all of your solid arguments, which in truth werent that solid. The betta doesnt chase the variatus because its not a betta. As Zoe said, the betta doesnt fight another male betta for the heck of it, he would fight from his instincts. Bettas are NOT as smart as us, or even as smart as some other fish. Seeing a male betta triggers a territorial instinct.

well, i don't know if he just got it right by chance or not, but betta do choose to fight or not. when another male is in sight, betta has to choose to fight or not. if win, he will win terriority, but if lose, he lost everything and may include his life. betta doesn't fight that easily, especially the wild betta. he may want to preserve energy to stay alive and find a place to build a nest and mate rather than get the terriority the hard way. but now, the betta get seperated actually increase their level of aggression. again, this really depend on the betta's personality.

[Zoe]

Betta's don't fight at everything, no, I agree with you, aaa. I've kept bettas in community tanks with some fairly finny fish. The betta would flare if they got close but mostly just hung out in his territory. BUT there's no denying that if you put two bettas together, they likely will fight. There are always exceptions to every rule but putting them together in a cup to fight (where a fight will be much worse) solely for the purpose of entertainment, that's not right. They don't just fight because they want to. It's what they do.