Betta Problems...

[rokslide]

Common enough subject line I know... but I have looked through the previous post and haven't been able to find anything match enough to give me a go idea or what to do...

We have a female betta in a tank with 6 rasbora's, 2 corys and a kuhli. All were going on pretty well, having a good time, no fighting.

We got a house ornament thing for the tank for the kuhli to hide in as we didn't think he had enough cover... once again, no problems for a few weeks....

Last week the betta took to hiding in the house. She comes out once or twice a day (at the most) hangs around at the top a bit and then back into the house again. She seems to be off her food a bit so we got some blood worms for her and she'll have a little of that, but ignores everything else.

A couple of days ago we notice a discoloured patch on one of her sides. It looks like she has had a really bad scrape or something. Instead of her blue/purple colour it is a pink/red colour.

Testing the water we found our nirate levels where too high and the ph was as well. We have got the nitrates back to where they should be (or atleast better then what they were) and we are working on reducing the ph.

I am thinking about treating the betta with some of the medicine type stuff you can get but was trying to decide the best way. Should we treat the whole tank including the non-affected fish or should we move the betta into a bowl and treat her seperately from the rest? She has lived in a filtered tank all her life from what I understand so I don't know if the stress of bowl living would create a problem.

Other then the water chemistry what should I be looking for to find the cause of the problem?

Any information/help you can offer would be great.

[kelicom]

If the wound is really bad, you need to get her out of the tank, and if you want to use a bowl, vase, jar, whatever, as temporary housing until she gets better, then go for it. I wouldn't leave her in there permanently though...I've yet to find a fish who is happy about downsizing. If/when she gets well, it would be better to put her in a five or ten gallon tank of her own. You didn't mention what she was in to begin with though.

If your betta was hiding much of the time, it's likely that the fish aren't getting along. You probably already came to that conclusion yourself. Probably territorial disputes.

It sounds like you are doing a lot to make sure the water chemistry is right and you have the right food, and those two things should make more of a difference than treatment with an antibiotic. My own personal experience with antibiotics has been dismal at best. It's hard not to treat them when they take a turn for the worst though.

Good luck!

[rokslide]

When watching the tank (before the "wound" appeared) she tended to chase some of the rasbora about, but they would generally stay out of her way (they tended to be a bit faster, more nimble). I don't think anything ever chased her.

The store that I got her from had her in a filtered tank (at time of purchase).

To be honest I don't think it is a wound inflicted by any of the other fish. She loves to squeeze into small gaps and I think that may have something to do with it. As I said it looks like a scrape.

As for territory disputes, they were all getting on fine for the first couple of months and seemed to have the picking order sorted so I am doubtful she is hiding because of this. I suspect she is hiding because she doesn't feel well and isn't up to chasing off interlopers...

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. At this point I am planning on leaving her in the tank she is in for the next week or so and see how she goes with the corrected water balance. If she doesn't improve during that time then I wil pop her in a bowl for treatment.

[kelicom]

I have heard of other people's fish getting caught or injured on aquarium decorations (getting caught in a hole for instance), and if that is the source rather than the other fish, hopefully, you've taken it out. If she did it once, she'll probably do it again.

I agree with you that she is probably hiding now because she feels vulnerable. The pecking order can change--and an injury is one of those triggers. She is now bait. Fish can be very matter of fact about knocking each other off--whether the victim is parent, child, or tank mate. I've also seen them show amazing character--making a deliberate choice not to maime. But the general instinct is to go after whomever is smaller or weaker.

Sounds like you are keeping a close eye, though.

Keep us updated.

[ron v]

What size tank and how many fish? What type fish? How often do you change water? What are you doing to reduce PH?

[rokslide]

38 litres. 10 fish (1 betta, 1 kuhli, 2 corys, 6 rasbora). Weekly water changes of 25%. Using ph down to reduce the ph (taking some tank water, applying ph down to bring it to about 6.6-6.4 then slowly transfering the water back so the change in ph is not too rapid).

[Bettabum873]

Are both sides discolored or just one?? Does she look bloated??? When my female betta becomes eggy he sides drastically change colors and she hides alot. Just a thought

[rokslide]

okie, I got a better look at her today, se came out at feeding time. The scrape looks a lot less red today. Basically it looks like there is a band through the her mid riff (only on one side though). There apears to be a small hole in the fin at the bottom of the band. I don't know if this helps diagnose what the problem might be....

[ron v]

Many things could cause the symptoms you have described and if it seems to be getting better, maybe you should just concentrate on good maintenance ( water changes, etc. ), for now. If you could give us water chem. parameters, PH, nitrites, ammonia, nitrates. It could help.... I am concerned about your use of PH down. It doesn't work and usually makes things worse, so I would stop using that and lets try to figure out how to stabilize your chemistry.

[rokslide]

When you say ph down doesn't work could you be more specific?

I did tests on the water that is being used during water changes (before I treated it with stuff that removes chlorine) and it's ph is quite high (around the 7.6 mark, possibly more) so from my understanding this would be the likely cause for the high ph (atleast it won't be helping).

I will have to check my log book at home to see what the nitrate levels were. At the moment I don't have a test kit for nitrites or ammonia.

[ron v]

There are many products sold in fish stores that don't work. Ph down is one of them. Water contains a Ph buffer called alkalinity which comes from carbonate and bicarbonate ions in the water. As long as this buffer is present, PH cannot be lowered and sustained. The botton line is that PH cannot be lowered without first lowering KH ( the measurement for alkalinity ). The product " PH down " makes no attempt to lower KH, so it doesn't work. It will lower PH for a while, but a rebound occurs that is probably worse for your fish than the high PH is.

[rokslide]

Okie, so what are methods for lowering the ph that work when your standard water supply has a high ph?

[kristian18f]

Most people on these forms stress that a stable PH is better even if it was a little high.

I did see something about some kind of rocks/wood that would raise/lower your ph but I didn't pay too much attention.You may want to do a search on the forms for that.

[ron v]

Very very difficult. It is much easier to pick fish that do well in the tap water you have. The only reliable method is to mix soft acid water with your tap water. You can buy bottled water or you can purchase a reverse osmosis unit to make it yourself.
Really... making hard water soft is very difficult.

[rokslide]

I have a feeling that this...

Bacterial External Infections
Columnaris (specific to F. columnaris); Often Misnamed "Mouth Fungus"

Fish Tuberculosis/TB Skin Infection (specific to Mycobacterium spp.)

http://www.2cah.com/pandora/Disease.html#External

...is what I am dealing with... kinda looks like a cross between the 4th and 5th picture shown.

[rokslide]

Well the news for today. When we got home she was out and about, still not looking great though. Gave her some bloodworm which seemed to cheer her up. Did a 25% water change with a dose of Fungus Ade and Stress Coat. She is still out and swimming around, a lot like her normal self, which can only be a good sign.

[rokslide]

Okie, did another water change (25%) and a treatment with stress coat and fungus ade again. All in all it is looking pretty good for a fully recovery. She is out and about again, very little hiding if any. Looks like the affected area is starting to come back to normal. We will probably give her one more treatment on Wednesday and once that has ran go back to our normal routine.

Thanks again for the help guys.

[manda]

glad to hear she is doing better!