breeding feeders

[FishLoveLax]

I was wondering if anyone could fill me in with some info on how to breed and raise feeder fish (such as rosy-red minnows and goldfish) A few of my fish eat live and its a pain to go to the store and buy fish every few days. I have an empty 20g thats running, and i'd like to just keep it stocked with my own born and raised feeders. Any info is greatly appreciated.

[blcknwitecuban]

you could probably breed feeder guppies. i think with goldfish you need 2 trigger breeding but with feeder guppies all u need is a tank, a heater, and a filter as they are livebearers.

[Puffer Pita]

Buying feeder fish is a bad idea. That's a great way of introducing diseases into your fish and killing them. If you have to feed fish, raise your own. As blcknwitecuban says, guppies are easiest. Several males, buncha females (at least 1m/2f ratio, the more females you get the better) and soon you'll have a ton of fry.

[blcknwitecuban]

yay! whose smart? im smart!! I never even thought about it but it would be way easier. my turtles and tiretrack eel eat like CRAZY!!! breeding feeder fish sounds liek a great idea. next time i get some feeder guppies i'll save few 2 make some babies

[FishLoveLax]

how can i tell the males and females apart for the different species?

[Gump]

if you get feeder guppys the males will have color splotches on them and the females will be a light yellowish gray color and will get much bigger then the males. the males also have what looks like claspers that both ray and shark males have.

fancy guppy males have big colorfull tails and the clasper type fins by its anus. females have small tales and no clasper ****.

[blcknwitecuban]

the male feeders also have point anal fins

[MarineFish]

20 gallon tank is on
but what i do is i ahve a kiddie pool outside and parrots feather and water hyacinth on the top
i raise enough in the summer to feed all year

[doggydad38]

Read the "sticky" at the top of this page to sex livebearers.
Tony

[flamingo]

What fish are you feeding these to? I would say personally it's kind of a waste and too much work but it depends on what fish they're being fed to. In my case my fish eat about 30 live shiners on the rare feeder frenzies I offer, so raising anything for them would take too long and wouldn't be worth it. Jeesh, my bichirs alone could eat about 10 or more if they tried each hour. I use wild caught feeders. The place I get them from has never shown any parasitic infections in any fish I get, but I always qurantine and treat at least with a little salt before feeding. I don't rely on them much so I don't worry too much about disease.

Breeding goldfish for food is a bad idea. Not only are they harder to breed then livebearers, etc. they are also one of the worst feeder fish available.

[MarineFish]

ok im not challanging you im jsut courious as to why they are the worst feeder fish

[Puffer Pita]

From this same discussion on another forum:

Rosy red minnows and goldfish are very popular with people who like to use feeder fish, but they're actually the worst possible choice. They contain a lot of thiaminase, an enzyme that breaks down vitamin B1. Livebearers don't have thiaminase, and so are safer to use. Incidentally, prawns also have a lot of thiaminase, as do most oily fish, such as anchovies. Mussels and snails don't have thiaminase, making them both (yet again) perfect pufferfish foods.

Another factor is nutritional balance: predators of all types depend on the gut contents of their prey for essential vitamins. That's why cats eat the guts and livers of birds they catch before they eat the bits that seem nicer to us, the muscles. Livebearers are again ideal because they are herbivorous and easily fattened up with algae wafers and softened greens such as lettuce or frozen peas.

The fattiness issue is a bit unclear. Yes, it is true that too much fat is bad. Anything from a warm-blooded animal, such as cheese or chicken meat, will contain oils that will harden into fat inside the relatively cool body of a fish. That much is certain. But the fattiness issue with regard to cold blooded animals is more ambiguous to me. Ordinary fish food flake, made from fish meal, is 12.5% oil (at least the pot of Aquarian flake sitting here is). Not many fish are likely to be that fatty. Moreover, the oils in fish are rather different to the ones that cause problems in human arteries. So while I've read the goldfish are too fatty thing repeatedly, I'm far from convinced.

The main problem with feeders (as I see it) is that many of the people who think it fun to use them don't care to breed and feed their own feeders. This makes those aquarists much less reliable in terms of keeping their predatory fish healthy, because they're dependent on cheap goldfish or whatever. By contrast, someone weaning their predator onto dead foods can much more easily ensure the food given to their pet is clean, nutritious, and varied.

A mini-FAQ (rather long for a mini): http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=148384

[flamingo]

Not only all of what was mentioned, but they seem to be VERY hard to eat with most fish. Minnows, livebearers, etc. are slim lined and go down easily. Goldfish are more "triangularish" and take a while to eat IME. At least with my fish, out of all the feeders I've provided over the years, shiners and minnows seem to be the best. Luckily I can use a seine net and collect a 100 whenever I need them, and added bonus is that the environment they live in rarely has any parasites, etc. but I always treat them to make sure in most cases.

Most fish on a goldfish diet usually have liver failure, etc. after a while anyways.