west african mouthbrooder

[redpaulhus]

Has anybody here kept Pseudocrenilabrus nicholsi ?
I picked up a trio (1m2f) from the LFS I part-time at today.
They've been in the store for months (nobody really realized what they were) and the male has colored up nicely.

I moved them into a 55g tank with lots of caves and some plants (mostly swordplants). pH is running about 7.0 and the water is moderately soft (I have to buffer it or else it would be about 5.8 and cotton-candy soft ).

current tankmates include a mature pair of pearl gouramis, a breeding pair of Ancistris sp, numerous young Ancistris (many of which are going off to auction next week) and about 10 Danio roseus (dithers).

I've breed a number of Pelvicachromis species alongside the plecos in this setup, so I'm hoping the mouthbrooders won't have a problem with the plecos.

So - any experiences anyone wants to share ?

[emc7]

I've never even seen them, but I googled them after your post. http://www.gcca.net/fom/Pseudocrenilabrus_nicholsi.htm
Really nice looking fish. Bring your fry to ACA in Atlanta this July.

[redpaulhus]

The article that convinced me:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebI...renilabrus.htm

What's sad is that these fish have been in the store for months - nobody was interested in them because nobody knew much about them (the fish dept mgr who ordered them left the store a week or two later).

[joe kool]

what kind of rocks or structure are you using to make the caves? things like TUFA stone, lace rock, or even holey rock all will help you buffer the water without much if any added buffers. Especially if your just trying to maintain a 7.0 ph. tufa is light and porous much like volcanic rocks and make for good structure foundations as does lace rock. you can pile these on top of each other and create many holes and caves ... buffering your water all the while

[redpaulhus]

Hi Joe,
I use crushed coral in box filters in a number of my tanks to add both KH and GH, but I find that if I want to just target a certain pH and KH, adding buffer to the water change water makes it more controlable.

I also use alot of various calcareous rocks in my Rift Lake cichlid tanks - but for West African's like these I find the limestone shoots my pH and GH too high (when I was breeding Pelvicachromis taeniatus I found that I got different ratios of males:females at different pH values, so I needed pretty exact control of pH).

But you are right - tufa, "texas holey rock" and other calcareous rocks (mostly limestone varients) make great cave materials and quick, easy, handy buffers for both KH and GH.

[redpaulhus]

oops - I almost forgot - one of my females is holding eggs

That was alot faster than I expected - I guess getting only frozen food and daily water changes (drip system) at the LFS meant that they were already pretty well "conditioned" - in fact I'm surprised we don't have more fish breeding in the store tanks...

[redpaulhus]

well, its been a few months, and I'm stumped.
The female is almost constantly holding eggs (or fry) -- but I'm not getting any fry.
I've tried moving her to a tank by herself when I see with a mouthful of eggs - no fry.
I've tried leaving her in the breeding tank (her, her mate, about 6 danios, a few tetras, two pearl gouramis, and millions (!!!) of ancistris of all sizes) - no fry (I usually have no problems breeding pelvichromis in this setup).
I've tried moving her to divided off section of the tank with extra java moss - she sneaks past the divider (as does the male - she sneaks out, he sneaks in).
Most recently, I tried putting her in a floating "breeding trap" - I use them to raise my newborn ancistris, since I can concentrate the food while keeping them in the big tank this way - I saw a few fry two days ago, but today there were none.

Anybody have any ideas ?

[emc7]

Time to strip her. Get an egg tumbler.

[BV77]

Nicholsi get pretty nasty , be advised

[karazy]

nice looking cichlids man! i love when u get little finds like that

[redpaulhus]

Originally Posted by emc7

Time to strip her. Get an egg tumbler.

I've thought of that - but she's pretty small - no bigger than a female krib or a male apisto - not sure I'm ready to strip her, especially when none of my local stores have been able to get me more females.
If she was a big ol mbuna - then I'd give it a shot.



-------edit ---------
actually - I still might.
Thanks !

[redpaulhus]

Originally Posted by BV77

Nicholsi get pretty nasty , be advised

so far they haven't seemed any worse than most of the West African cichlids I've dealt with - but they are in with very robust tankmates (danios, adult gouramis, and plecos) and the tank is a planted 55g, with lots of room and short sight-lines - so they may not be getting much of a chance to beat on anybody.

But thanks for the heads up !

[emc7]

How about a grid? Needlepoint plastic or something with small holes. If she hold s the fry to term, she must let them out sometime, if they can get through and she can't, you might separate some. Problem is, if mommy calls, they will go back in her mouth. Have you tried a rocky bottom? with lots of small shell and rocks to hide under.

[redpaulhus]

Originally Posted by emc7

How about a grid? Needlepoint plastic or something with small holes. If she hold s the fry to term, she must let them out sometime, if they can get through and she can't, you might separate some. Problem is, if mommy calls, they will go back in her mouth. Have you tried a rocky bottom? with lots of small shell and rocks to hide under.

I was wondering about that - maybe a bigger breeder trap, with a small section of grid that they'll fit thru but she won't...

or - I might just try a different tank, with a tank divider - and this time, I'll silicone the side vertical clips to the glass, so the fish can't sneak thru the sides (which is what keeps happening with the divider in the 55g - it might as well not be there ) - I'll put the male and female in on one side, and when I see her holding, move her to the other side.

orrrrr
I guess I could move them both to a tank with no other fish, wait till I see her holding, and try to remove the male.
Its not like I don't have tanks with lots of java moss for the fry... they're just all full of other fish right now

[BV77]

I've raised them before, that's why I say they can be nasty

[redpaulhus]

Sometimes I forget the first rule of being cichlids - Just breed, baby.

Yesterday, a little (maybe 3/8 or 1/2 inch long) P. nicholsi poked his/her head out of one of the amazon swords, and grabbed some food.
The tanks is planted well enough (and over-fed enough) that there could be a few more hiding in there.
I've decided to toss in a few more clumps of java moss whereever they will fit, to add more tiny cover and infusoria, and just let her raise them on her own.

BV77 - I know, that's why I didn't want to put the pair alone in a small tank like I would for alot of other dwarf cichlids, I think my male would be too rough on my female.

[BV77]

Good deal, Red......good luck with the fry. They are cool, colorful fish.