help sex my new boilivian rams... 56k warning

[l burke l]

Well its been a while since i have posted anything about my tank. Mostly because my journal was erased and my signature was lost in the hack but oh well... no sense crying over spilt milk.

I finally went out and bought some rams... I have 4 total in my tank and obviously plan on just keeping two. Im just waiting to see if any of them pair up. My problem is I have no idea if I have both males and females, all males or all females. This is where you experts come in. Im also not sure how old they are since they were bought at the lfs and not a breeder but they seem to be 1.5 to 2 inchs max, so i would expect they have a little growing to go. I know it gets easier to sex them when they are older but I would hate to wait and see if any pair up while having all of the same sex. If they are males and females what should I be looking for to know that they have indeed "paired up" if they do? Besides actual spawning. For those who dont know the tank is a 29 gallon planted tank with pressurized co2 kept at 83-84 degrees. ph-stays between 6.8 and 7 Ammonia-0 nitrites-0 nitrates- 0-2.5 (i have no idea why my nitrates are so low. I have been dosing flourish nitrogen and it doesnt help at all. These low nitrates have also started a very very annoying hair algae that i cannot get rid of.)

At the moment the stocking is
4 bolivian rams
5 peppered cories
8 serpae tetras
1 bamboo shrimp
3 rummy nose tetras (these would be gone if I could actually catch them, i have tried for hours at a time, 2 net method and all)

Mandatory tank pic:



rams: (sorry in advance for the amount of pics and their quality. I wanted to make sure people had all angles and such) pics are number for discussion purposes

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[Buggy]

I'm not an expert but the way I was told to sex them is to look at the dorsal and tail fins. The males dorsal fin will come to a point with the color extending all the way to the end and the tail will be "lyred" (having points at the tips). The females dorsal fin and tail will be more rounded. If the fins are ragged it may take some time to use this method. I had one that I was sure was female until the nipped fins grew back! LOL live and learn.
Number 13 (left), 16 and 17 I'm betting are males. Number 15 appears to be female but not certain (could just be too young to tell). Can't tell for sure on 14 because of the ragged fins.
I'm sure someone on here can tell better then I can so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[JustOneMore20]

Bolivians are pretty hard to sex IMO. But, you can use the dorsal fin, like Rita said.

What I would do is wait until they start showing off for each other. Breeding/spawning colors and pretty distinct and usually the male is more colorful. Again, not a sure fire way, since you could have a less colorful male.

[GoodMike]

bolivian rams are extremely hard to sex, unless you have dealt with them for a long period of time. The fins/coloration/spots, etc are not a definite thing at all. as Justonemore pointed out, the best way to tell, is to watch them breeding. im sure thats not the answer you wanted, but its the only surefire way

[gil_ong]

dude. i thought you were getting german rams?

[l burke l]

i was and actually did get german rams first.... i knew they were hard to keep but had no idea that they would be dead by morning :/ i think its because i didn't acclimate them properly but oh well, these rams are much hardier and being that i have only been in the hobby for about 3 months now i think it will be a much better choice for my beginner tank. I did learn my lesson though, i used to the drip method to acclimate the new rams and will do so for all my fish in the future.

Thanks for all the replys to so far, hopefully ill be able to figure this whole thing out soon.

[l burke l]

well..... im going on about a week now and still cant tell at all. lol

[GoodMike]

... as stated ... it is very difficult to just look at a bolivian ram and tell the sex... if you see one laying eggs, that would be a female, if you see another making passes at the eggs but not laying any, that is most likely your male. You may get to see some pairing off behaviors, but that doesnt always tell you that you have a male and female.

[l burke l]

still no baby making lol