35 Gal Ich Problem

[loach<3r]

I have a 35 gal planted community tank with 2 clown loaches, 3 young yo yo loaches <New, ich popped up within a couple weeks after the addition but I think it was triggered by a slight chilling & poor water quality. Ironically they aren't showing infestation.> 2 bosmani rainbows, 2 mollies, 2 dwarf gouramis,1 6" pleco & 1 random ? fish <hes a tad more aggressive than the others & I was going to give him away after medicating. he picks on the gouramis but the others are bigger / faster than him> I took out my carbon on Thursday (5 days ago) & began a half dosage of Cupramine (buffered active copper). I complied with the instructions and repeated the dosage on sat (3 days ago). The larger fish are showing whitish flecks on the body & fins. (progressively worse, some of the other fish started showing spots) Some of the flecks are sharp like a grain of salt, and others are fuzzier. Ive successfully treated ich before (been a year or two different tank) but I've never seen velvet so I hope I'm treating correctly. The behavior patterns for the ailments are similar but based on what I've read they are acting like they have ich (the clown loaches most particularly).

On Thurs the temp had fallen to 70 over the course of 5 days or so. Since then I've raised it slowly back to 75, but I need to get a heater if I'm going to bring it up more. I live in a fair climate so usually my house temp is stable enough to keep my tank happy.

Needless to say my poor buddies still aren't looking all that great. I've spent hours reading (a lot of varying info...some conflicting) and I have a plan:

Tomorrow (Wed.):

Get heater, & aquarium salt.

50% water change using gravel vacuum (replaced water is treated wtih NovAqua.).

Add 3 tsp/gal Aquarium Salt (How much will hurt my plants?!?) followed by 1/4 dose (half of the orig dose) of Cupramine.

Attach water jet to increase surface aeration (Already have carbon filter & 2 buried bubble wands.)

Start slowly raising temp over a few days to 86.

Lower the amount of time my tank lights run to 8 hours. (Will this make a difference? I worry about loosing my plants if I black out the tank for a couple days.)

Monitor my fish in between treatments.

Sunday:

Repeat 50% water change, add salt & Cupramine respectively.

5 days after no fish are showing signs of ich do several 50% water changes to remove the Cupramine & salt.

Any suggestions / alterations? I have a smaller 15 gal that I plan on setting up as quarantine in the future, just to be on the safe side.

Thanks in advance!

[Ringo]

I would be careful about adding salt, and treatmeny at once.
For surely all of that stuff being put into your tank will cause some extra stress on your fish.
I think that raising the temp. of the tank, works just as good to clear ick than treating a tank with chemicals.
But where you should raise the temp. of a tank over the course of a few days, it might be smart to treat your tank until the heat is raised.
Pimafix is the best that I have used for treating ick, it seems to take a little while to kick in, but when it does it takes it right away.
Ickguard Is a very powerful ick treatment. Who knows what goes in your tank when you put it in, but it works extremely well.
I have only used that stuff twice, and it takes the ick right away.
One thing that stinks about this stuff is that it can stain your tank, and all the stuff in it.
Thats one of the reasons why lots of poeple like pimafix better than malachite green/blue

Three teaspoon to a gal. seems like quite a bit for a 35G.
I would only a like 2-3 tablespoons to the whole tank.
Because adding lots of salt, then changing half of it out can cause some stress for the fluctuating water levels.
I never keep that much salt in my tank, I just keep the temp. of my tank really high. Right now its around 85 and because its that high I don't have to worry about ick anymore.

[Puffer Pita]

Copper products should never be used on scaleless fish such as clown loaches, and should never be used in the main display tank as it will soak into the decor and continue to leech out over time, and can cause an overdose. If used (which I highly recommend against, pretty much ever in FW tanks), it should only be done in a hospital tank.

Ich and velvet treatments are the same, raised temp and salt. Using ich medications cause more problems than they cure and tend to kill fish instead of fix them. I would recommend a large volume water change, as large as possible to remove as much of the Cupramine as possible, then begin treatment with salt and heat. Continue treatment for a minimum of 2 weeks. Nothing else is needed.

FYI, Pimafix isn't a treatment for parasites. Its for fungal/bacterial infections.

[Zoe]

I second Tina. Ich meds cause more problems than they solve. Salt will kill the ich parasites just as well as ich meds, without harming your fish. You can use the dosage you said, but I go with 1tbsp/5gallons and it does the trick. This won't cause undue stress on your fish or your plants (be sure to disolve the salt in warm water). And do a large waterchange first to get rid of the copper treatment.
Continue the treatment for two weeks at 82F (I wouldn't raise to 86F - it isn't necessary IMO). Ich is only killed by heat 89F. Until then, the ich just goes through its lifecycle more quickly.

[pokagon55]

I have never heard of primafix as an ich treatment? I have used the "ich meds" before and most contain Malilichite Green which will kill off your bacteria in the tank. I have used table salt with all the problems that i have gone through and it works very well. Just don't use it as a "tonic" as it will interfer with regularosmoisis of the fish.

[Zoe]

Primafix could be used after the ich treatment to kill of fungus before it can cause an infections in the open wounds from the Ich parasites. But it will not kill ich on its own.

I wouldn't use table salt, personally, as it has iodine it. Try for kosher salt or aquarium salt.

[Puffer Pita]

Table salt is fine, doesn't have enough iodine or anti-clumping agent or anything else in it to be harmful to fish. They'd be pickled long before that happened.

[Ringo]

Originally Posted by Zoe

I second
I wouldn't raise to 86F - it isn't necessary IMO). Ich is only killed by heat 89F. Until then, the ich just goes through its lifecycle more quickly.

Are you sure about that? My tank is 85, and has been for the past 6 months. And since I turned the heater up that high I haven't had a problem with ick at all.
I used to deal with ick like every month when my tank was 76, but when spring came I turned my heat up hoping I woulden't have to deal with it. During the spring and I am hardly ever home, during the weekdays I am usualy always gone and every weekend I go jamming.
And since spring I haven't dealt with ick (or any other problem) since then.

[loach<3r]

SO, I continued my research after posting and i discovered some sad facts that contributed to the untimely death of my largest clown loach.

1. My fish lady is (forgive the lack of a better word) fishtarded. I am never listening to her or buying her fish again. She knew I had loaches and gave me this treatment. She told me NOT to do a water change beforehand (poor water quality put MORE stress on my fish when I started the meds.) and she told me to completely remove my filters <2 in one dealies...I'm switching as of today.>

I plan on switching out my water and adding in biospira (if i can find some in town) to conditioned water and switching to salt. Will my plants be ok with 1tbs/5gal? I just want the rest of my lil buddies to thrive. To be honest I'm surprised I've only lost one so far.

Thanks for the help.

[Puffer Pita]

Higher temps speed up the lifecycle but do not kill or prevent ich parasites. However, increased temps also speed up the lifecycle of fish as well, and the warmer the temp, the less oxygen is in the water for the fish to access. Unless you are keep fish from very warm tropical waters, I wouldn't suggest keeping them anywhere near 86 for extended periods of time. For most tropical fish, 82 tends to be the max recommended temp.

[Puffer Pita]

Originally Posted by loach<3r

Will my plants be ok with 1tbs/5gal?

Plants will be fine with that small amount of salt.

[Zoe]

Originally Posted by SpoiledFishies

Are you sure about that? My tank is 85, and has been for the past 6 months. And since I turned the heater up that high I haven't had a problem with ick at all.
I used to deal with ick like every month when my tank was 76, but when spring came I turned my heat up hoping I woulden't have to deal with it. During the spring and I am hardly ever home, during the weekdays I am usualy always gone and every weekend I go jamming.
And since spring I haven't dealt with ick (or any other problem) since then.

Yup, I'm quite certain. Google it if you don't believe me
Sounds to me like there is ich in your tank. When the tank is up at 86F, the ich goes through its lifecycle in a matter of a couple days. You probably would not notice the ich spots on your fish in that short of time. And without stress, the fish probably wouldn't be overtaken by a huge ich "outbreak" during each cycle. But when your tanks are at 76F, you might have more of an opportunity to see the ich. Anyhoo, I suggest you use some salt and completely eradicate the nasty buggers, although the heat may have worked for you. At a certain temp (87F I think) Ich stops reproducing.

[pokagon55]

I keep my tank at 79 degree's all the time and after that day of bringing in the ich from the lfs I never had a problem afterwards. I used 1tbls per 5 gal. with the temp. at 82 for two weeks and it worked like a charm. The only fish death that I had was a chineses algea eater. The fish did not like it but made it through.

[loach<3r]

Okay. So I switched out 70% of the water, added back in water conditioned with Prime & NovAqua, put in the warm salty water as I filled it up, and stabilized the temp at 75 < I'm working it up to 86, but SLOWLY.> The surviving fish still seem a tad stressed, but they are alot happier then when I was using copper.

Aside from the large clown loach I also lost one yoyo loach fry & one lamp eye tetra. The latter two suddenly went missing between last night and today. I looked all over in case they jumped.....but I guess the stress kicked in and the others just ate them. (do alot of community fish do this? I feed 2x a day so it cant be hunger....).


Thank you for the feedback. At the very least, I feel like a more responsible pet owner.


CE