Possible Early Signs of Ick

[Sitaga]

Sadly I have experienced 4 loses due to Ick (and 2 are sick now – one for a second time) in my 6 week old freshwater tanks. I feel I have been very diligent in my water testing and water changes, but none the less, I have lost many fish. I want to first state that 6 weeks ago I purchased 2 tanks - a 10 gallon and a 15 gallon, so many of my issues have been brought on by new tank syndrome (as I have read).

Regretfully, at the expense of the fish's life, I have learned a few things during this process that I would like to share with everyone. I'm still learning more every day, so any addition to this post would most likely be beneficial to others as well. There has only been 2 fish in each tank at any given time. I spend pretty much all day in front of my tanks (they are in my home office), so I have been able to watch them through the entire process -- very sad to say the least. I felt I could not let their deaths be in vein.

Symptom 1: A couple days before I first noticed the Ick the fish would position itself in strange places in the tank. For instance, I have a small suction cup thermometer at the top, back corner of the tank. The fish would wedge itself between the glass and the thermometer, nose down. This happened with two of the fish.

Symptom 2: The day before the Ick was visible all the fish were very hyper - pacing up and down the glass repeatedly. All 5 fish displayed this behavior (maybe I'm a slow learner) the day before they had visible white spots. I gather this is caused by spikes in ammonia. I tested my tank with test strips every other day and all results came back with reports of zero. I am going to try the test kits (liquid drops) today and see if anything reports different.

Symptom 3: The last sign I got was the fish rubbing themselves against rocks (decorative rocks, not the gravel). This started happening just hours before I noticed the white spots.

Symptom 4: As I have read the clear cut sure way to tell if your fish has Ick is if they have white spots on them. It has been my experience that these spots reproduce like a plague over the entire body of the fish until it finally dies.

I believe that had I known this information before hand I could have noticed what was happening and had a jump start on treating the Ick which may have saved a few lives. My hope is that someday someone will stumble on this post when their fish has one or more of these symptoms and that they will be able to save their fish.

I’m sure I have done things wrong along the way and I hope that anyone seeing this was experience will share with me possible flaws in my pets’ lives. I take constructive criticism very well and will take all the advice I can get.

Sincerely,
Sitaga
a.k.a. Bill

[Ichthius]

Ich, Ichthyophthirius multifilliis, isn't necessarily brought on by ammonia spikes alone. As you seem to know, it's a parasite and inhabits tanks even when not noticable. When certain situations arise, low water quality, stress, etc. the parasite shows itself, and as you said, spreads like a plague.

A simple and natural way to treat the problem is with salt and raising the temperature in your tank, my preferred method.

TREATMENT: To do this, you need to raise the temperature to about 80 degrees farenheit. In addition "It is very easy to treat Ich with salt. You’ll need a concentration of 0.3% salt (3 teaspoons per gallon) to eradicate the Ich. To reach 0.3% salt you would add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon of water to your tank 3 times, each 12 hours apart. Predissolve the salt in tank water and then add slowly to a high water flow area.
It is important to keep track of the salt going into your tank because salt does not evaporate and is not removed with activated carbon. It is removed only with water changes. To keep the salt at the desired level, when you do a partial water change, you must salt the new water to the same concentration as the tank water. For example, if you remove 10 gallons of water you will need to add 30 teaspoons of salt to the change water to keep the tank at 0.3%." Remember, this is aquarium salt, not table salt.

Ich has a lifespan of about 5 days. I suggest treating with salt for a week or so, when no more visible signs of ich are there.

This should clear the ich up. If not, there are a number of effective, but less preferred chemicals that should work. Quick Cure, for example, has worked for me in the past.

Good luck, Bill

[Sitaga]

WOW am I glad I came here. I have been using Quick Cure and CopperSafe (Monthly treatment didn't seem to do anything).

Ok - I have been told to use Salt to reduce the level of stress in my fish. I have added 1 Tablespoon (which I think is about 4 teaspoons) to every 5 gallons of water. I have done numerous water changes so I gather this is all but gone by now. I also did not know to dissolve the salt before placing it in the tank. I simply took the spoonful and dumped it in the tank.

I will go down to the store now and purchase a salt test (at least I hope they make them), find out where my salt level is and get it to 0.3%. I don't think my small box of Aquarium Salt is going to cut it, so I'll grab another box also. Should I also be doing a daily water change or do I just get the level of salt to .3% and monitor the rest of the tank until the Ick is gone?

Boy, I hope I'm not too late! I'll be back from the store in a jiffy and will check back.

Thanks,
Sitaga

[emc7]

Quick cure is effective if used as directed. A lot of other Ich treatments aren't. Qucikcure can be harsh on some fish and stain decorations, so many prefer the salt treatment. Early treatment is important, so posting the signs should be helpful.

all results came back with reports of zero

What did you test. @ 6 weeks, nitrite is more likely than ammonia. Stress can definitely set off ich as can low temperatures.

Ich has a lifespan of about 5 day

Ich's lifespan can vary with temperature, so don't quit treatment too soon. 10-14 days is good insurance.

[Sitaga]

After speaking with the kind folks in First forum's chat I have concluded that temperature is the root of my problems. I have read the comment "Never trust your local fish store." - well I did... They told me that as long as my temperature stays in the green, I'm good to go without a heater. Well, apparently that was the worst advice they could give. After adding the salt recommendation Ichthius I ran back down to the store to purchase a couple heaters for my tanks. In the tank that is showing signs of Ich again I have raised the temperature to 76 degrees (it has been hovering at 74 degrees). I plan to raise the temperature slowly to about 86 degrees throughout the night (I'm be here with them the whole time). I have added another air pump and lowered the water level slightly (so the filter adds additional air). If it looks like the fish are starting to get stressed I will back the temp down. So far they appear to not mind a bit.

Get this - the LFS recommended that I take a beta bowl and fill it with salt and drop it in the tank. I'm going to stick to Ichthius' recommendation, but thought I would share that with everyone anyway. I'm fairly sure that is a bad idea in this case, but wondered if I should do something similar to the tank that is not showing signs yet. The other tank has had problems with Ich in weeks past, so I'm not sure if I should treat it again right away or wait for signs to show up.

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful help you have given me. After this is all said and done I will modify the original post with the new information. Has anyone else experienced these early signs and can validate them?

Many thanks,
Sitaga

[TheOldSalt]

One thing which should be mentioned, because so far it hasn't been, is that there are several different types of "ich." These do NOT all respond to the same types of treatment, that is, there is no one single surefire way to get rid of whatever it is you're calling "ich."

Some kinds are copper tolerant. Some LAUGH at salt. Some like it hot.
If you don't have a microscope to absolutely identify the critter in question, then you may well have to try a couple of different things before you find what works.

Oh and the lifespan can be 23 days or more.

[emc7]

Scratching is a definite sign of ich, but some other external parasites cause it too. Hiding can be any kind of stress, including being bullied by other fish. But if you've had an illness in a tank once, when the fish act stressed again, its more likely to be a recurrence than something new.

[Sitaga]

I have read there are different strands of Ich also. My problem was that I didn't know to continue treating for days after the Ich was visibly gone. This is the first fish that has survived an entire day with it, so I'm hopeful that the suggestions presented to me have saved 2 lives.

[Sitaga]

I just wanted to let everyone know that my fish seem to have recovered - showing only small signs of Ich now. I will keep up the daily water change, keep the salt and keep it warm until all signs are gone have have been gone for 3 days. I'm excited that the survived and appreciate everyone's advice.

Sincerely,
Sitaga

[GodsinisteR]

quickcure recomends 2 days of treatment by the way..

i was treating my tank for fungus with melifex. i had treated for 7 days. replaced my carbon with a 30% water change and everything seemed fine. water tests were in range at the time i checked.. went to work and just got home to find 2 of my fish covered in what looks like fungus and ick.
i just started treatment again this time using quickcure.. i am using melifix and quickcure as recomended.. will update in a day or 2 to see the outcome..

my fish were also scratching up against rocks but I didnt really notice much before that

[Sitaga]

GodsinisteR,

I would really recommend following the regime Ichthius describes above. Adding Salt, Air, and heat to the tank. The visible Ich was completely gone with 48 by follow those instructions and I didn't have to dye my tank in the process.

Good luck!
Sitaga

[GodsinisteR]

thanks, I will try it. I will set up a small tank the same way with the salt. all I think I should have to do is add the obvious fish to the salt bath. Or should i treat the 125 gallon with the salt and monitor?

[emc7]

quickcure recomends 2 days of treatment by the way

Are you sure? Maybe they changed the label. I though you treated for 2 day, changed water and repeated for 10-14. No ich cure can work that fast, you need to get the whole life cycle.

[mousey]

when doing water changes make sure that the new water is the same temp as the old or a bit warmer.
I have had ick start because of daily water changes that were not the same temp.

[Sitaga]

I found it best to have the water in a bucket with the water to be placed in the tank with a heater in it to get it to temp. Give it an hour or so, then dump it in the tank.

[GodsinisteR]

thats some good advice.. it may have actually triggered the ick in the tank again due to the water change.. I actually lost the fish even with treatment.

quick cure says on the label kills ick in 2 days but i dont think its true myself.. I have now set up a treatment tank with salt for new sick fish

[Sitaga]

Ok - I have had no visible signs of Ich for 3 days now. This morning I woke up and Jack looked a bit stressed. A little pale, and again rubbing on the rocks. Is this because of the salt in the tank? I did not re-add salt with today's water change, so it should start to drop now. I hope that's the only problem, I would hate to have it be the Ich coming back.