Emergency!!!!!!!!!

[Kribensis12]

HELP!!!! I have had this problem for a while, but it hasnt gone away. I have a 20g tank with 100+ baby convict's and a few baby platies. The convict's eye's will start to turn white, kinda like what a open wound look's like when you pour poroxide on it. The it get's bigger, and cover's the side of his/her face. Then they start to hang on the side of the tnak, and they die hours later. I am treating with melafix, tommorow is the 3rd dose, but notihng has happend yet. Is the melafix strong enoguh? Also, for the chance that it might be a parasite, i added CopperSafe, and still no reaction. What is wrong?

[TheOldSalt]

The coppersafe is not helping. Bacteria LOVE copper, and adding copper to a tank with infection is only making things worse.
Melafix is wimpy. It's good for preventing problems, but not so good at stopping them.

Clean up the tank. Vacuum the gravel, too. Change about half the water with water you already had prepared a few days in advance. Put new media in your filter.

Continue the melafix, and add Pimafix as well to fight fungus.

Next week, repeat, But don't change the filter media this time.
Next week, repeat.

You have 100+ convicts in a 20 gallon tank. They're going to make a big mess and grow quickly. You must work to stay on top of things or they'll never make it.

[JustOneMore20]

Since you have so many fish in that tank (even though they are small), you may want to do 2 water changes weekly of 40%. Take TOS's advice and do the gravel vac and water change and filter media change this week just once, but next week try doing 2 water changes. I'd probably just vac the gravel once, but twice won't hurt. Being fry, I'm sure you are feeding them alot to make them grow and you may not be changing enough water now.

Water changes are the best way to prevent things from going wrong IMO. Sometimes you just can't prevent disease, but alot of times the bacteria affect stressed out fish which usually comes from poor water quality.

Try doing more water changes and see if that helps. If they don't make any progress, you might try a full spectrum antibiotic combo like Maracyn and Maracyn 2 for a week.

[Kribensis12]

I do 3 water changes a week of about 30% to keep their growth hormone out of the water, and to keep it vlean. I did a test with my API Freshwater Master Test Kit and here are the result's:
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Ph: 8.2
Kh: to high for the test to read it
Gh:same as above

Unfortnatly, my test kit dosent cover nitrat's, but i do add aquarium salt, which is known to reduce the toxcidity of nitrate's. I ma sure they are low, as last week i went to petsmart nad they used a teswt strip( i know,not reliable) and it said my nitrate's were from 1-20. That was before i started doing water changes.I have not done any water change's since monday, as that is when i started medicating. I do not let water sit out, i use TopFin Water Dechlorinator. Also, vhlorine is to harmful as you might think. There is bacteria in city water, and city water is dechlorinated, so compared to the 4% die of on a filter, what is the difference, especially when you are adding bacteria to the tank? I was told by my lfs( superpets) that i should run both copper+Melafix, as i brought one of the babies to them, and they said they werent sure. Also, they said that it look's like a parasite, but dosent act like one.

[TheOldSalt]

Uhm...
Alrighty then. I guess you already know it all, so good luck with that.

wow.

[Kribensis12]

Any idea's? How do i already know it all? There is alway's something new to learn, especially when you are only 14!!!!!!!!!!!

[shade2dope]

I would listen to old salt and kristen If i was you they know there stuff.I think oldsalt was saying that cause you were in your second post going against what he was saying.Give it some time in there post they said it would take some weeks not 2 days.Is there anything new or do you not like what they have written as to me its seems like very good advice and everything you need to know is there.

[Kribensis12]

Well, it is true about the Chlorine. You do need to let it sit. Letting it sit will only remove the chlorine, not the chloimine. Also, i use dechlorinator, which rid's me of both. Plus i have plant's, and i was told chlorine is bad for them. I do belong to another forum, called fishforums.net, and they have around 40 user's active all the time, they have given me different advice, and my fav lfs gave me the same advice as fishforums.net did. They said that they really hav eno idea, but to try to pull out the big gun's and shoot for maracyrn and maracryn 2, which Kristin also said. I have never heard that bacteria "love's" copper either. I have done personal research on the internet and found no such conclusion's. PLus, i am 14, broke( except for my 16 dollars), and what is the point of a water change, espcially when i have been doing 3 30% water changes a week? The mesicine would have no effect. I also just replaced the filter in my 20g. With a aquaclear. I am still running th eold one, so i can still have the tnak cycled. so there is no point in changeing the pad. I am also having issues with my 30g tank. Here is a link about it, as i dont feel like re-typing ever post: http://www.fishforums.net/content/Tr...d-Destruction/

[Cichlidsrule]

Just a bit of advice--
Always listen to Old Salt He's nearly always right.

[Kribensis12]

I did buy some PimaFix, and i am treating it. I will change 40% next week, and i will try to dose again, as im also treating another tank with Body Rot. I did buy a AquaClear ammonia Clear Pad, as i was told that i might need to euthenise the babies, clean tank, bleach it, gravel, and filter. I was preparing, so when i add live fish to cycle the tank, i would have something to obsorb the ammonia.

[TheOldSalt]

What???

Oh, for the love of -

Look, here's the thing, you are WAY off on a bunch of things, and so too, apparently, are those on the other site and at your lfs. I'm probably wasting my time, but I'll try to enlighten you a bit.

1- Bad-guy bacteria do indeed thrive in the presence of copper. if your fish have an infection, copper WILL only make it worse. This is well known and long established, and I'm sorry if your own googling didn't make that clear to you. Everyone in the business of treating fish professionally knows that sometimes you are forced to make a choice about which thing to treat first because of this, and many hobbyists know it as well. Now you do, too, theoretically.

2- Salt neutralizes nitrIte, not nitrAte.

3- The reason you let the water sit out a bit before making a LARGE water change is not due to the chlorine, but to the dissolved gases ratios. Dechlorinator is fine and dandy, but it won't stop suffocation and wild pH swings.

4- City water is not dechorinated, it's chlorinated. It does have some bacteria in it, but not much.
"...vhlorine is to harmful as you might think." Okay, whatever.

5- You shouldn't be adding more bacteria to the water right now, as it would only be wasted on one hand while on the other it will use up a lot more oxygen than you can spare. If you run low on oxygen, the bad-guy bacteria, which don't need so much and actually do better when O2 levels are down, will just get that much more of a toehold.

6- Your lfs should know the difference between parasites and infections, but since it's a superpet, I won't be surprised if they don't. Telling you to mix two incompatible treatments is simple guesswork on their part, which they can't really be blamed for considering everything.

7- The point of a water change is that cleanliness is bad for badguy bacteria, and good for fish health. There are a vast array of aquarium problems which can be fixed by a series of water changes alone, and many more which they will help considerably.

8- The point of changing your filter media is that it is contaminated with pathogens which need to be removed physically as much as possible. Rinse it in hot water and then cold water a few times since it's new and not cycled, and you can re-use it.

Change some water, get things good and clean, and then add the treatment meds. Let them work according to the directions, then clean everything up again. It's a pain, sure, but sometimes it's just what you need to do.

There's no need to get rid of the fish and bleach everything. THAT is what would be pointless.
If you still think that some sort of eye-specific parasites are infesting your fish and the antibiotics don't work, then try a med called "Clout." It's good for things like that which are normally not affected by copper.

Finally, you are trying to raise 100+ convicts in a 20 gallon tank. You can pretty much forget about letting you filter do the work, cycled or not. If you want to raise a bunch of fry, then you're gonna have to make a bunch of regular and sizeable water changes. There are a lot of things building up in the water that the filter just can't handle, including a nasty hormone released by growing fish to retard growth, and the only way to be rid of them are waterchanges. Over the coming years you'll find that waterchanges are your best friend in many situations, and this is another reason to keep some water sitting out, ready to go in an emergency or any other time you want it.

You can believe me or not on all this, it's up to you. I've been at this since 1972, in case that helps you decide.

[Kribensis12]

I have been at this since 1998. I started at 5 with a few gold fish. If i do a water change, and them re-treat, i will not have enough medicine to treat the entire 7 day's for both tank's. My AquaClear also has those Bio-Ball's for the Nitrifing bacteria to grow. I was told about the bleaching becasue a Good Old Homeowned petstore had the exact same problem, and they tried to treat it and nothing worked, so then they had to take down and bleach everything.
1. I have never heard that bad bacteria are influenced at all by Coppper.
2. I was always told that NitrAte was less toxic with the presence of Aquarium Salt.
3. I was told that my bubbler would take out some of the disolved gasses when the bubble's pop in the air.
4. I meant Chlorinated, sorry! But there is a person on fishforums.net that is all into science and stuff, and he was the proof to back up that chlorine isnt as harmful as most people think.
5. I have a bubbler bar in my tank. And there is a gap between my filter and the water, so there is some more oxygen added to the water.
6. There is a Difference between Superpet(z) and SuperPet(s). Superpet(s) is a homeowned local store here, that has the best information, and the my friend;s ther eare the manager for night, the manager of day, the fish room manager, the fish room employ's, and the reptile manager( he has dabbled into fish), and they all said that same thing, we have never seen anything like this, it look's like a parasite, but act's like a fungu's, becasue it is only attacking the eye's.
8. Would rinsing it, destory most of the bacteria?

[TheOldSalt]

8- yes, which is the whole point.
Once again, I think you're missing something I'm trying to tell you here->> FORGET about your nitrifying bacteria. They are not going to be able to keep up with 100+ convicts in a 20 gallon tank, no matter HOW cycled your filter is. Waterchanges are what you're going to need for the coming months.

There ARE some eye-specific parasites out there, mostly flukes. They are pretty easy to tell apart from bacteria or fungus I would think, but maybe not. Clout is good for most eye flukes, which is why I recommended it. Copper isn't much help at all for them.

[Kribensis12]

I just spent my last bit of money on the pimafix. I think that im going to run the treatment, and then do a water change. I have been testing the water daily and nothing has happend to the water. I am also running 2 filters. Which each are capable of filtering 20g. So that is 40gallons of water that it can filter. In a 20g tank. Also, wouldnt my fish have died in the last month if the filter couldnt keep up with the bacteria right? I am confussed!

[TheOldSalt]

Your 100 fry are FRY, at least for now. As they grow, assuming they do, then they will have a MUCH bigger impact on your system. Honestly, do you think you could cram 100 adults into a tank and have the filter keep up with them? Of course not. As your fish grow, they will very quickly overwhelm your system. Each fish growing only a quarter inch makes 25 inches of new fish-flesh in your tank. Think about it that way for a moment and you should start to see the problem.

[guppyart]

we don't care how long you have been keeping fish, having fish at 5 means nothing other then decorations your parents took care of.

listen to theoldsalt he is more experienced then most of us here by years upon years.


I told you this awhile ago when you came into chat and warned you bad things like this would happen to your tanks due to overstocking.

also with convicts your fry numbers are probably already dropping cause there eating each other.
you mentioned growing them out to sell but in a 20g the growth isn't going to be fast with those conditions

[Kribensis12]

They are at about 1/2 inch. Since there are so many, there is ro real bullying. I did my best to count them and i reached 65 before i got lost. They are very active, just the eye problem. I do understnad what you are saying old salt. I just didnt get it at first. My lfs said that they will take them around the beggining of feburary. I am going to cull around 20 today, maybe 30. Any sick ones, or small ones, or odd behaving ones are going. I just dont like killing unless i have too. I had church today and a lady said that it might be eye flukes? Is there such a thing? I've never heard of them personally. The only reason i said that i have been in fishkeeping for a while, and i am experinced with most stuff, but some of the thing's old salt is saying just dosent make sense, or i just plain dont want to belive it.
Krib

[guppyart]

if you hadn't understood you could have just said "I don't understand could you explain it more simply" and people would have helped and simplified.

if you don't want to believe what a experienced fish keeper has to say, then why do you need our help being how you know what your doing it seems.

and if your fry are at half an inch your out of your mind.
but since you know what your doing thats okay cause they won't eat eacho ther other.
even though there known to be one of the most aggresive cichlids that isn't african.

everytime TOS tried to help you and explain stuff nicely and calmly even though everytime you didn't listen to his advice and he had already mentioned flukes in post #13.
so congrats on completely ignoring that


if your going to ask for advice again listen and read what people try to do he was trying to save your fish and you didn't read.

I have bred convicts and I can tell you your fry are eating each other no matter what you try to say, its a simple fact that they are.
there hyper aggressive, and very active fish that shouldn't be housed in small tanks or with non aggressive fish.

your platy fry are dead they will have been the first to be eaten

[guppyart]

oh wow I hadn't even seen that it was a hexagon tank 0_o...
at least a 20g long there is some length hexagons are the most pointless tank out there.

by the time feb comes around my guess is the fry will be stunted and numbers will be very few.

you need to get a 55g fast or cull all of them pretty well

[Kribensis12]

I still have the 4 baby platies. I am going to move them to my 30g with my other fish as they are the sma esize as the convict's. The only time i have seen the convict's agressive is when there are 3 alone. I wasnt sure if they were eye flukes or not, and i didnt see that he said fluke's. I thought he said ich. Also, i need alot of people's adivce if they all say the same thing then im happy and sure that is what it is. Since 2 people say it, and no one else has any idea, im going with fluke's. Would pimafix be a good med for the fluke's? And if Flukes are a Parasite, wouldnt the CopperSafe or Quick Cure have done something( note, i did a huge water change before adding th ecopper, as they are close to the same thing, and it would kill my fish). Also, you said that old salt was trying to say stuff nice and calmly. Have i not been calm? Or have you been reading my post's wrong? This is my situation. Im am young, with no money. Next since im young, i take every one's advice seriously. Then when you belong to 2 different forum's, and then know people who have kept fish for a while and everyone is saying differnet thing's. What would you do? That is the way i feel right now, so tha tis why im confused. And, no need to be harsh. Also, i didnt pick out the tnak. I had the 30g to start off with. THen i was given the 20g flat hex from my uncle. I like the tank, even though it is impossible to clean with it's shape( i manage anyway). Plus, i can tsend it back saying, i dont like the shape, you keep it! Now can i? Plus, Hexagon's are particualry good for angel's, espcially Veiled tail's!