Ick help

[Good Wolf]

I just noticed today that my black neons and other tetra have ich. I haven't checked the loaches but I'm sure the rest of the fish either have it or have a good change of getting it.

I've just spent an hour reading tons of articles and there is a ton of contridictions.

I've read that most medications will hurt the loaches and the shrimp even if I used half doses. I've read that if you don't use medications you can raise the temp and also use salt. I saw some people say salt will hurt the loaches...

I currently have Super Ick Cure which has Malachite Green which stains the water and can hurt the loaches. The copper based treatments such as Aquari-sol will kill my shrimp.

I think I'm just going to slowly raise the temp up to 86 degrees and hope that takes care of it but I'm certaintly open to suggestions. Here is my stock list.

Clown Loaches
Serpae Tetra
Neon Tetra
Cardinal Tetra
Phantom Tetra
Black Neon Tetra
Amano Shrimp
Oto
Dwarf Gourami

Your advice is very much appreciated.

[emc7]

It sucks that ick & ich are too short to use as search terms, but read the posts in the disease section, there are lots of ich threads.

Even if high heat kills ich, medium heat speeds up its life cycle and can make things worse. Suggest you don't go up too slowly.

Can you set up another tank and treat the less delicate fish more aggressively? Like put the shrimp in a 10 for a while. Ich cures often say to use half strength for tetras, too. IME quickcure (malachite green & formalin) works at full strength but I've heard reports it doesn't work at 1/2.

Whatever you do change water before you treat. You are likely to some dead plants and algae and reduced filter ability (higher temp water has less O2 for the bacteria), so you need clean water to start. Use a designated "dirty water" bucket so you don't spread it.

One novel ich cure is to keep moving the fish into new containers/tanks. The free-swimming ich stays in the water, but dies without a host.

[Good Wolf]

I only have my 5g tank that I can put my shrimp in. I don't know if I need to worry about the shrimp carrying something over to the frogs though.

[TheOldSalt]

If you're really worried about the meds, then the method emc7 mentioned can work for you. get a bunch of small containers, like plastic ones, about 3 or 4 if them. Set them up with water and an airstone or small filter, and move the fish onto one of them. The next day, move the fish into the next one, and dump the first one. Reset up the first one, and the next day, move the fish to the third one. dump & refill #2, and the next day, Move the fish to #4. The next day, put them back into the first one and start over; I think by now you see the pattern. After a couple weeks of this rotation, the ickies will have all fallen off the fish, which would have always been long-gone by the time the swarmers hatched. You'll have spotlessly clean fish untainted by meds, and if you cleaned up your main tank during this time, they'll have a clean tank waiting for their return.

If that sounds like too much work, then just separate all the inverts from the plants and the loaches and tetras, etc... into different containers and treat them all separately according to their tolerances.

If that's also too much work then crank up the heat to 95 while simultaneously increasing the aeration circulation by a great amount to compensate for the lost oxygen. ( hot water holds less oxygen, while at the same time hot fish NEED more oxygen )

A few hours at 94 will wipe out most ich, you see. Then you can lower the temp slowly over the next week. This isn't a recommended method by any means, but I mention it for the sake of completeness.

[Good Wolf]

I don't have the means to seperate the fish.

Will lowering the water level in order to create water falls from the HOBs increase the aeration enough? If not I guess I can pick up an airstone.

[TheOldSalt]

Get airstones.

Really? You can't separate the fish at all? Really?

Oh, one other option: Maracide. Maracide works great and is safe for plants

[Good Wolf]

Really......

[TheOldSalt]

Baloney. There's always a way, and if you're going to succeed as a fishkeeper, you have to find it.

[mousey]

do you have empty peanut butterjars, empty juice bottles?
If you do you have enough containers for the little fish at any rate.
And if you have one fish per container and change the water 50% twice daily or once whole daily the little fish will do just fine as far as oxygen goes at room temp. been there and done lots of little fish in lots of little containers. Only trouble is that sometimes the ich will get on the gills in such a great quantity that the fish suffocates from them.
if you start early as soon as you see the ick it should go better than the mess i had after i waited for a few days and the fish were smothered in them.
i did manage to save my betta, loach, danios and platies by shuffling containers daily.
Lost the pleco, and the glo lights- they were treated with 1/2 dose Quickcure and an airstone in there containers with alternate day water changes.

[Good Wolf]

I have over 60 fish and at least 40 of them of ich on them.

I started a heat/salt treatment a couple days ago. The ich is clearing up. I plan on starting to do small water changes on Saturday and keep them up for a week or so then start dropping the temp back down to 80-82 and leaving it there.

If this doesn't work then I will remove the shrimp and begin an aquari-sol treatment.

[mousey]

ouch! I would be removing the ones that had no ich on them if I could.
What kind of fish are they?

[Good Wolf]

Most of the are Tetra and two of the clowns have spots. The black neons have it the worst or they are just more apparent on them. I have a stock list on the first page.

I imagine the ones that aren't showing the ick probably still have an issue and I'd rather them be part of the solution than to find out later that I used of kept the in for the treatment.

I've already started the salt bath and had the temp up to 86 for two days now. Everyone is doing fine. There are no signs of stress, and I'm going to continue to keep a close eye on them.

[mousey]

good luck to you and the fishies!

[COM]

Chris - are all of these fish in the same tank? I'm guessing no.

Aside from all of the other advise, medications, etc., you need to severly clean all of your fish stuff because it is possible that the ich has spread via nets, siphons, etc.

I would recommend hot water, bleach, and a bathtub right away.

[Good Wolf]

Yep, they are all in my 55g. I'm very lucky that my 29g didn't get it after using the same syphon two days before they got big enough for me to see. I"m monitoring it closely.

Ick can't live out of the water for more than a couple of days and I haven't used any of the equipment for a week.

I did however assign nets and syphons to the two different tanks.

I've had one teaspoon per gallon of salt and the tank up to 86 for four days now and so far the Ich hasn't fallen off of them. If they are still covered in it by Tue-Wed I'm going to start lowering the temp and changing out the water to begin an aquari-sol treatment.

So far I haven't had any losses and none of them seem stressed out. (knock on wood).

[TheOldSalt]

"...Ick can't live out of the water for more than a couple of days and I haven't used any of the equipment for a week...."

Well, let's hope that you actually have ick, then, and not one of the several other diseases that look just like it.

[emc7]

Check your sources, I'm sure the "salt cure" requires a lot more salt than 1 tsp/gallon.

[Good Wolf]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

"...Ick can't live out of the water for more than a couple of days and I haven't used any of the equipment for a week...."

Well, let's hope that you actually have ick, then, and not one of the several other diseases that look just like it.

Originally Posted by Good Wolf

I did however assign nets and syphons to the two different tanks.

I upped it to a tablespoon of salt and the ich has fallen off. I'm going to begin vac'ing the gravel out tomorrow and replacing it with salt water for another 5 days and then start putting fresh in while lowering the temp down to 82 where I will keep it from now on.