All my fish are dying - help!

Jolly Mon · 06-13-2006, 01:20 PM

Fish Dying - Algae Problems - Temp/PH issues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the last 3 days I have lost 2 clown loaches, a bala shark, and tin foil barb and 2 Odessa barbs. From the beggining:

Three weeks ago - did 30% water change, gravel vac and filter change

Two days later - water cloudy/slightly green

1 day later - Water cloudier more pronounced green - went to lfs to get more accurate testing - Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites were all fine. Phosphorus tested off the chart. LFS gave me Algae Destroyer and
Phos-Zorb. I treated with algae destroyer, waited 24 hrs, did 50% water change and added Phos-Zorb.

1 week later - looking better, did a 40% water change. Water now almost clear again.

Saturday - tin foil barb and bala died

Sunday - Odessa barbs died

Monday - went to a different lfs for tests. Everything tests okay but in discussion I find out that I should have been keeping the tank at 7.4ph and 75 degrees rather than 6.9 ph and 70 degrees. Bought ph up and put in one teaspoon (55 gallon tank).

This morning - both clown loaches died.

WTF? How do I fix this?

**SueM** · 06-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Jolly man, first off it sounds like you did to thorough of a job cleaning.... "did 30% water change, gravel vac and filter change." is a bit much for your BIO to handle. Did you totally change the filter medium? or did you just rinse it, if you just rinsed it, did you use dechlorinated water?? That's the main reason for the "bloom"
Second, you cant raise the pH that fast, you have to go slow, over the course of days. It would be the same as puring acid into your tanks, the fish need to adjust slowly. Raising or lowering the pH too fast is very dangerous.

Jolly Mon · 06-13-2006, 01:46 PM

Sue,

I have a filter that has a filter bag,(which I changed) and a sponge(which I wrung out). I have well water, so there is no chlorine. when using the ph up, I was following the instructions to only raise it by .02 at a time and have only done that once(yesterday).

**JustOneMore20** · 06-13-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

I find out that I should have been keeping the tank at 7.4ph

Why should the pH be 7.4? None of the fish need a specifically higher pH. pH swings can kill your fish. I'm also not a fan of using chemicals to change pH.

You should ask for exact numbers when you get your water checked. Your ammonia could be 1 or 2ppm and they tell you its fine...you never know. Also, using chemicals such as the algae destroyer and the other one could be harmful to fish.

msdolittle · 06-13-2006, 04:58 PM

I'm sorry you lost all those fishies......I hope someone here can help you correct whatever issues you're having.

girth vader · 06-13-2006, 05:06 PM

30% water change and gravel vac even with a new filter bag really shouldnt affect your Bio. I do it from time to time. I'm not sure why they suggested an increase in PH though, maybe a PH of 7.4 helps reduce algae growth considerably. As for the temp, I think running your tank at 75 degrees all the time is probably better then 70, IMO. Try not to over correlate the cloudyness and algae to the deaths of the fish. If 2 LFS checked your water and said your water is fine, then chances are it is. It may be a parrasite problem or something else besides the water quality. I know its the first thing we check, and rightly so, but there are other things that could be going on in there that you may not be noticing because your fixated on getting the algae and cloudyness out of the tank. Are the fish gasping? with an amonia spike they will gasp for sure. and that should stop with a water change. if they continue to gasp, then maybe something internal. Are they eating normal? are they flicking on tank objects? Do you use salt in the tank? I would throw a handful of aqaurium salt in there to help with any parasite or gill issue. Just a few ideas other then H2O problems you may want to look at.

ziggy.

**SueM** · 06-13-2006, 05:57 PM

Jolly Mon, I wasnt saying that it "did" crash your bio, it was an avenue to think about.
The Bloom that you got, was it white? As in a bacteria bloom? or Green as in algea?

Jolly Mon · 06-14-2006, 06:23 AM

Sue,

I believe it probably did crash my Bio and maybe opened the door for the Algae. The bloom was indistinct at first and then got to be greener over time.

**Damon** · 06-14-2006, 07:14 AM

Tank is too small. What were you stocking levels before that happened?
Leave the PH products alone.
Only rinse the media bag, not replace it. You should only have to replace it every 10 months or so.
Never clean or replace both media inserts.
What size filter? You may be underfiltered with those fish. Barbs are messy.
70 degrees is a little low but within limits. Try 76 degrees.
Have your well water tested. Well water is known to have high amounts of nitrates and po4 in it as well as heavy metals.

**TheOldSalt** · 06-14-2006, 07:21 AM

Yeah, that's what happened alright.
Your cleaning knocked down your biofiltration ability, which in turn raised your ammonia, which in turn led to the algae bloom, as algae love ammonia. That would have been fine, but then you got rid of the algae and raised the pH. Raising the pH made the now-unchecked ammonia much more toxic, and Whamm-O! Dead fish.
It's a hard lesson to learn, but only work on one thing at a time in the future. Everything going on in a tank depends on/is influenced by everything else that's happening.
Instead of algicide & pH raiser, your petshop should have offered you some bacteria culture like Stability or BioSpira, which would have fixed your problem almost instantly. After that you could have worked on your pH.

So, remember this one hugely important factoid from now on and you'll be a lot better off: ammonia is MUCH more dangerous in alkaline pH water than in acidic pH water.

Jolly Mon · 06-16-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

Yeah, that's what happened alright.
Your cleaning knocked down your biofiltration ability, which in turn raised your ammonia, which in turn led to the algae bloom, as algae love ammonia. That would have been fine, but then you got rid of the algae and raised the pH. Raising the pH made the now-unchecked ammonia much more toxic, and Whamm-O! Dead fish.
It's a hard lesson to learn, but only work on one thing at a time in the future. Everything going on in a tank depends on/is influenced by everything else that's happening.
Instead of algicide & pH raiser, your petshop should have offered you some bacteria culture like Stability or BioSpira, which would have fixed your problem almost instantly. After that you could have worked on your pH.

So, remember this one hugely important factoid from now on and you'll be a lot better off: ammonia is MUCH more dangerous in alkaline pH water than in acidic pH water.

Thanks. The wierd thing is that my ammonia tested at zero (my tests and confirmed through 2 lfs) throughout the whole thing.

**JustOneMore20** · 06-16-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Tank is too small

Gotta agree. Balas get to be about 14 inches, are very timid, and like to school. A 125g tank would be more appropriate. Clown loaches will eventually outgrow a 55g. A 100g-125g would be better for them in the long run. Just something to think about after this ordeal...

**Cichlid Man** · 06-16-2006, 04:05 PM

pH 6.9 is ideal for all your fish. Why do you want to change it?
If your phosphate levels are too high. Then I suggest some water purification in the form of RO.

06-13-2006, 01:20 PM	#1
Jolly Mon Fish Watcher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Westminster, MD Age: 40 Posts: 28	All my fish are dying - help! Fish Dying - Algae Problems - Temp/PH issues -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the last 3 days I have lost 2 clown loaches, a bala shark, and tin foil barb and 2 Odessa barbs. From the beggining: Three weeks ago - did 30% water change, gravel vac and filter change Two days later - water cloudy/slightly green 1 day later - Water cloudier more pronounced green - went to lfs to get more accurate testing - Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrites were all fine. Phosphorus tested off the chart. LFS gave me Algae Destroyer and Phos-Zorb. I treated with algae destroyer, waited 24 hrs, did 50% water change and added Phos-Zorb. 1 week later - looking better, did a 40% water change. Water now almost clear again. Saturday - tin foil barb and bala died Sunday - Odessa barbs died Monday - went to a different lfs for tests. Everything tests okay but in discussion I find out that I should have been keeping the tank at 7.4ph and 75 degrees rather than 6.9 ph and 70 degrees. Bought ph up and put in one teaspoon (55 gallon tank). This morning - both clown loaches died. WTF? How do I fix this? __________________ 55 Gallon Freshwater Black Red Tailed Shark Bala Shark (small will trade him when he grows) 2 African Dwarf Frogs 2 Clown Loaches 1 Pea**************** eel I never see

06-13-2006, 01:43 PM	#2
SueM Administrator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kennewick, WA. Age: 50 Posts: 1,016	Jolly man, first off it sounds like you did to thorough of a job cleaning.... "did 30% water change, gravel vac and filter change." is a bit much for your BIO to handle. Did you totally change the filter medium? or did you just rinse it, if you just rinsed it, did you use dechlorinated water?? That's the main reason for the "bloom" Second, you cant raise the pH that fast, you have to go slow, over the course of days. It would be the same as puring acid into your tanks, the fish need to adjust slowly. Raising or lowering the pH too fast is very dangerous. __________________ Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled

06-13-2006, 01:46 PM	#3
Jolly Mon Fish Watcher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Westminster, MD Age: 40 Posts: 28	Sue, I have a filter that has a filter bag,(which I changed) and a sponge(which I wrung out). I have well water, so there is no chlorine. when using the ph up, I was following the instructions to only raise it by .02 at a time and have only done that once(yesterday). __________________ 55 Gallon Freshwater Black Red Tailed Shark Bala Shark (small will trade him when he grows) 2 African Dwarf Frogs 2 Clown Loaches 1 Pea**************** eel I never see

06-13-2006, 04:58 PM	#5
msdolittle Animal Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Age: 33 Posts: 626	I'm sorry you lost all those fishies......I hope someone here can help you correct whatever issues you're having. __________________ ~Angela~

06-13-2006, 05:06 PM	#6
girth vader Hey Now! Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 616	30% water change and gravel vac even with a new filter bag really shouldnt affect your Bio. I do it from time to time. I'm not sure why they suggested an increase in PH though, maybe a PH of 7.4 helps reduce algae growth considerably. As for the temp, I think running your tank at 75 degrees all the time is probably better then 70, IMO. Try not to over correlate the cloudyness and algae to the deaths of the fish. If 2 LFS checked your water and said your water is fine, then chances are it is. It may be a parrasite problem or something else besides the water quality. I know its the first thing we check, and rightly so, but there are other things that could be going on in there that you may not be noticing because your fixated on getting the algae and cloudyness out of the tank. Are the fish gasping? with an amonia spike they will gasp for sure. and that should stop with a water change. if they continue to gasp, then maybe something internal. Are they eating normal? are they flicking on tank objects? Do you use salt in the tank? I would throw a handful of aqaurium salt in there to help with any parasite or gill issue. Just a few ideas other then H2O problems you may want to look at. ziggy. __________________ I have a tank!!! A nice one too!

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06-13-2006, 05:57 PM	#7
SueM Administrator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kennewick, WA. Age: 50 Posts: 1,016	Jolly Mon, I wasnt saying that it "did" crash your bio, it was an avenue to think about. The Bloom that you got, was it white? As in a bacteria bloom? or Green as in algea? __________________ Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled

06-14-2006, 06:23 AM	#8
Jolly Mon Fish Watcher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Westminster, MD Age: 40 Posts: 28	Sue, I believe it probably did crash my Bio and maybe opened the door for the Algae. The bloom was indistinct at first and then got to be greener over time. __________________ 55 Gallon Freshwater Black Red Tailed Shark Bala Shark (small will trade him when he grows) 2 African Dwarf Frogs 2 Clown Loaches 1 Pea**************** eel I never see

06-14-2006, 07:14 AM	#9
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	Tank is too small. What were you stocking levels before that happened? Leave the PH products alone. Only rinse the media bag, not replace it. You should only have to replace it every 10 months or so. Never clean or replace both media inserts. What size filter? You may be underfiltered with those fish. Barbs are messy. 70 degrees is a little low but within limits. Try 76 degrees. Have your well water tested. Well water is known to have high amounts of nitrates and po4 in it as well as heavy metals. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

06-14-2006, 07:21 AM	#10
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,250	Yeah, that's what happened alright. Your cleaning knocked down your biofiltration ability, which in turn raised your ammonia, which in turn led to the algae bloom, as algae love ammonia. That would have been fine, but then you got rid of the algae and raised the pH. Raising the pH made the now-unchecked ammonia much more toxic, and Whamm-O! Dead fish. It's a hard lesson to learn, but only work on one thing at a time in the future. Everything going on in a tank depends on/is influenced by everything else that's happening. Instead of algicide & pH raiser, your petshop should have offered you some bacteria culture like Stability or BioSpira, which would have fixed your problem almost instantly. After that you could have worked on your pH. So, remember this one hugely important factoid from now on and you'll be a lot better off: ammonia is MUCH more dangerous in alkaline pH water than in acidic pH water.

06-16-2006, 04:05 PM	#13
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100	pH 6.9 is ideal for all your fish. Why do you want to change it? If your phosphate levels are too high. Then I suggest some water purification in the form of RO. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

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