Needle nose Gar – help

Vermifugert · 06-19-2006, 01:36 PM

So here’s a little background. My friend likes fish and fish tanks but never had the room for anything larger then a 10 gallon tank. I told her I was wiling to get a larger tank at my place for her to experiment with.

Well I think we broke one of the biggest rules in fish keeping and she picked up a gar at the local pet warehouse on a whim. We didn’t do any research or anything. We have had him a month and he is happy but here is my question

The signage at the store said he would eat frozen or live foods. Well he has never once eaten any frozen food of any kind. When he got hungry enough he would start going after some of the smaller dish in my tank.

So now I’m forced to get feeders to keep him happy. Has any one been able to get a needle nose gar to eat anything other then live food? I’m thinking what the pet warehouse had on display was a total fabrication at this point

**Cichlid Man** · 06-19-2006, 02:16 PM

What you do is, you carry on feeding it live foods until it gets really used to the idea that when the lid goes up, food goes in. Once he get's used to this, he'll strike at the food so fast he won't be able to tell if the food he's eating is dead or alive. It just takes time.

harif87 · 06-19-2006, 02:23 PM

Certain fish react differently to different types of foods. Needle nose gar are only caught in the wild, so your little man is probably used to eating only fresh meat being the predator that he is.....you could try to feed him freeze dried and if he doesnt eat then take out the food and try again the next day. After a few days he'll probably take it.

Also Needle Nose Gar grow to be pretty big and should be kept in a tank 70 gallons or more. I hope you have the means to accommodate him.

Vermifugert · 06-19-2006, 02:30 PM

Right now he’s in a 55 and he is already getting too big for it. I’m looking to set up a deeper tank (not necessarily larger) just so he has the room to turn around. I also read they should be kept in groups of a minimum of 3? Is this correct?

flamingo · 06-19-2006, 07:56 PM

OK, first off it's not a gar to even begin with, while needlenose fish are from the family belonidae, gars are from the family Lepisosteidae.

The easiest way to ween them onto "non-living" foods is to starve them for a short period of time, after a week try freeze dried krill.

Do you have any pics? I don't see why it would be so big it can't move in your 55. Most get to be around 9-10 inches, some reports of them being 13 inches but i've never seen this personally. The one I have currectly is in a 60 gallon, pretty close to the size of your tank, and it has all the room in the world. They don't really need 70 gallons or more IMHO.

Needlenose fish DO NOT need to be kept in groups. Sometimes they do better when kept with another, and sometimes they couldn't care less. If your NN is always shy then try introducing another or two, it should be more likely to come out when it's in a pack.

At the moment mine eats feeders, freeze-dried krillm frozen krill occasionally, and lately shrimp. They will also eat crickets.. but make sure they aren't the black ones, needlenoses WILL NOT tolerate them. They have a harder "shell" then the brown ones and different acids..they also bite like crazy.

Check out the profile section for my needlenose profile...it's being re-done again in a little while because I keep finding stuff I missed.

harif87 · 06-20-2006, 10:13 AM

Sorry double post

harif87 · 06-20-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingonhot

OK, first off it's not a gar to even begin with, while needlenose fish are from the family belonidae, gars are from the family Lepisosteidae.

Needle Nose Gar: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...catid=1897&N=0 ........

Vermifugert · 06-20-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingonhot

OK, first off it's not a gar to even begin with, while needlenose fish are from the family belonidae, gars are from the family Lepisosteidae.

Xenentodon cancila - Freshwater garfish

Family: Belonidae (Needlefishes)
Order: Beloniformes (needle fishes)
Class: Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes)
FishBase name: Freshwater garfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingonhot

Do you have any pics? I don't see why it would be so big it can't move in your 55. Most get to be around 9-10 inches, some reports of them being 13 inches but i've never seen this personally. The one I have currectly is in a 60 gallon, pretty close to the size of your tank, and it has all the room in the world. They don't really need 70 gallons or more IMHO.

community Philosophy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Community Philosophy

The needs of the fish or animals should be taken into consideration. These needs may include;
* Proper room for the Activity Level and Swimming space - Swimming levels/niches, the animal’s usual style or level of activity such as ‘laps’ around the aquarium, schooling, and skittish behavior common in schooling fish.

Because this is a somewhat skittish fish he has a tendency to get excited and dart across the tank. I’m not the only one to experience this behavior. Whey they are alarmed they well take off and run into the side of the tank. When this happens I have seen mine panic and thrash in the corner of the tank unable to turn around. It’s quite upsetting not to mention harmful to my gar.

Because I care about its safety I do plan to move him to another tank better suited to its needs. Maybe these aren’t the needs of your gar but I realize not everything will have a textbook solution. That’s something you learn with experience and age

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamingonhot

At the moment mine eats feeders, freeze-dried krillm frozen krill occasionally, and lately shrimp. They will also eat crickets.. but make sure they aren't the black ones, needlenoses WILL NOT tolerate them. They have a harder "shell" then the brown ones and different acids..they also bite like crazy.

This is VERY useful. Thank you!

**Scuba Kid** · 06-20-2006, 02:31 PM

the needlenose gar is not a true gar....

Quote:

Originally Posted by From Aquaticpredators.com

the following is a list of fish called gars that aren't really true gars--

rocket gar
needle nose gar
marbled gar
maculata gar
hujeta gar
South American gar
gar characin
slant-nosed gar
silver gar

http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/i...?showtopic=332

**JustOneMore20** · 06-20-2006, 02:51 PM

Standard 55g tanks are not that wide, only 13 inches. If you have a 10-12 inch fish, it will be hard for him to turn around and may feel very cramped. Good job on setting up a wider tank for him...he'll thank you for it.

Vermifugert · 06-20-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba Kid

the needlenose gar is not a true gar....

http://aquaticpredators.com/forums/i...?showtopic=332

Why are we debating semantics? If people call it a gar and it is recognized as a gar then does that make me calling it a gar any less correct? No. A peanut isn’t a nut at all but do you go around making legume butter and jelly sandwiches? I didn’t think so.

Vermifugert · 06-20-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Standard 55g tanks are not that wide, only 13 inches. If you have a 10-12 inch fish, it will be hard for him to turn around and may feel very cramped. Good job on setting up a wider tank for him...he'll thank you for it.

I’m glad to see some people are paying attention to the important aspects of this thread. Thank you!

**Scuba Kid** · 06-20-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermifugert

Why are we debating semantics? If people call it a gar and it is recognized as a gar then does that make me calling it a gar any less correct? No. A peanut isn’t a nut at all but do you go around making legume butter and jelly sandwiches? I didn’t think so.

im not debating with you. im filling you in on something you should know. if you think it's a true gar and find information on keeping true gars, then you are probably not finding useful information on keeping your species. This is the only reason im filling you in. needlenose gars are not related to true gars that live in water in the US, so their requirements for tank care are different. don't listen if you don't care, but know that it may not help you with your fish's care in the future.
i also gave you a link to a helpful website on true and false gar care information. maybe if you took a look you would see that i was helping as well.

**Cichlid Man** · 06-21-2006, 03:27 AM

Gar this, gar that. A gar is basically a name for an elongated predatory fish which looks like a marine garpike. So there are no "true" gars. What you have to remember though is that a needle nose gar is not in the same family as the alligator, spotted, shortnosed, and longnosed gars which are in the family Lepisosteidae.
Charican gars are completly different too, and they can be identified by the presence of an adipose fin.

At least you know what's right for your fish, and you've bought a bigger tank to provide more space, that's what being a fishkeeper's all about, providing it with all it's needs

And thanks for recognising the "philosophy" of this site.

ganglyfreak · 03-26-2007, 05:37 PM

ok here's the story i have needle nose and have had them for quite some time now if you really want them to eat something other than feeder minnows take flamingo's advise go down to your local petstore and buy ten large crickets ( green ones they'll probably have wings but they won't fly away) when your putting the bugs in the tank try to make sure that they hit the water feet first as the will sit very still when they're on their backs in the water. I've been feeding my NN's Crickets now for about 6 months (mainly just wanted to see if it would eat them) and they love them after about the first two weeks i had to watch my finger when I was turning over upside down bugs on the surface just about got caught a few times. now Crickets are really cheap but i still recomend a couple minnnows a week as well, I'm not 100% sure but i don't think that a straight bug diet is good for these guys.

don't be discuraged if the NN won't eat Bugs right away it took about 6 days and 20 tries to get mine eating them.

if you have any other questions just post them you'll get at least a couple straight answers.

Ryan
that guy with the fish

**Scuba Kid** · 03-26-2007, 05:41 PM

Look at how old this thread is. I doubt the poster is still looking for information.

flamingo · 03-26-2007, 06:33 PM

UGH, more bringing up of needlenose threads. No offense, but the next person who lectures me on them is getting an imaginary slap in the face

.

Ravynnm · 03-26-2007, 07:15 PM

More from a .Com business point of view, than a fish point of view. the point is the fact someone drilled down into the the site to find this thread and make a comment is metrically significant.

Primary is that the site is a rich repository of community generated knowledge. If search is adequate, and/or members are willing to drill the combined knowledge is here and accessable.

Secondary is the sense of community. It's a volitle. When you create an enviornment like this, you're subject to the fish you catch. Helpful? Arrogant? Willing to share? It takes on its own life based upon the individuals who comprise the community.

To date, the wealth of info is awesome.

The ****************in profanity filter needs work, but what it does is oddly cool. Bizarre but cool. I'm inviting myself to work's next discussion on how to refine ours and usuing you as an example.****************ty flies, but ****************y doesn't. I'm not going to explore other options.

Bashes hand to head. No thread ever goes out of date (business models aside) the info is always relevant to someone.

If they found it and want more info, give it to them. Think about how deeply buried it was, how much reading they had to do to find it. Then share with them all the knowledge you gain from the time the thread started and now. Been a while, eh?

Rav(y)

Ravynnm · 03-26-2007, 07:22 PM

way cool, I'm betting Im flagged as a high profanity user which alters what it looks for and how it block and present block words.

Tech guys, sorry; I'm curious on parameters from a tech point of view.

rav(y)

Ravynnm · 03-26-2007, 07:36 PM

More from a .Com business point of view, than a fish point of view. the point is the fact someone drilled down into the the site to find this thread and make a comment is metrically significant.

Primary is that the site is a rich repository of community generated knowledge. If search is adequate, and/or members are willing to drill the combined knowledge is here and accessable.

Secondary is the sense of community. It's a volitle. When you create an enviornment like this, you're subject to the fish you catch. Helpful? Arrogant? Willing to share? It takes on its own life based upon the individuals who comprise the community.

To date, the wealth of info is awesome.

The ****************in profanity filter needs work, but what it does is oddly cool. Bizarre but cool. I'm inviting myself to work's next discussion on how to refine ours and usuing you as an example.****************ty flies, but ****************y doesn't. I'm not going to explore other options.

Bashes hand to head. No thread ever goes out of date (business models aside) the info is always relevant to someone.

If they found it and want more info, give it to them. Think about how deeply buried it was, how much reading they had to do to find it. Then share with them all the knowledge you gain from the time the thread started and now. Been a while, eh?

Rav(y)

06-19-2006, 01:36 PM	#1
Vermifugert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 31 Posts: 159	Needle nose Gar – help So here’s a little background. My friend likes fish and fish tanks but never had the room for anything larger then a 10 gallon tank. I told her I was wiling to get a larger tank at my place for her to experiment with. Well I think we broke one of the biggest rules in fish keeping and she picked up a gar at the local pet warehouse on a whim. We didn’t do any research or anything. We have had him a month and he is happy but here is my question The signage at the store said he would eat frozen or live foods. Well he has never once eaten any frozen food of any kind. When he got hungry enough he would start going after some of the smaller dish in my tank. So now I’m forced to get feeders to keep him happy. Has any one been able to get a needle nose gar to eat anything other then live food? I’m thinking what the pet warehouse had on display was a total fabrication at this point Last edited by Vermifugert; 06-19-2006 at 01:57 PM.

06-19-2006, 02:16 PM	#2
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100	What you do is, you carry on feeding it live foods until it gets really used to the idea that when the lid goes up, food goes in. Once he get's used to this, he'll strike at the food so fast he won't be able to tell if the food he's eating is dead or alive. It just takes time. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

06-19-2006, 02:23 PM	#3
harif87 Minor Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 21 Posts: 996	Certain fish react differently to different types of foods. Needle nose gar are only caught in the wild, so your little man is probably used to eating only fresh meat being the predator that he is.....you could try to feed him freeze dried and if he doesnt eat then take out the food and try again the next day. After a few days he'll probably take it. Also Needle Nose Gar grow to be pretty big and should be kept in a tank 70 gallons or more. I hope you have the means to accommodate him. __________________ sorry for beating you senseless "The human torch was denied a bank loan"

06-19-2006, 07:56 PM	#5
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,899	OK, first off it's not a gar to even begin with, while needlenose fish are from the family belonidae, gars are from the family Lepisosteidae. The easiest way to ween them onto "non-living" foods is to starve them for a short period of time, after a week try freeze dried krill. Do you have any pics? I don't see why it would be so big it can't move in your 55. Most get to be around 9-10 inches, some reports of them being 13 inches but i've never seen this personally. The one I have currectly is in a 60 gallon, pretty close to the size of your tank, and it has all the room in the world. They don't really need 70 gallons or more IMHO. Needlenose fish DO NOT need to be kept in groups. Sometimes they do better when kept with another, and sometimes they couldn't care less. If your NN is always shy then try introducing another or two, it should be more likely to come out when it's in a pack. At the moment mine eats feeders, freeze-dried krillm frozen krill occasionally, and lately shrimp. They will also eat crickets.. but make sure they aren't the black ones, needlenoses WILL NOT tolerate them. They have a harder "shell" then the brown ones and different acids..they also bite like crazy. Check out the profile section for my needlenose profile...it's being re-done again in a little while because I keep finding stuff I missed. __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

06-20-2006, 10:13 AM	#6
harif87 Minor Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 21 Posts: 996	Sorry double post __________________ sorry for beating you senseless "The human torch was denied a bank loan"

Members currently in the Chat:6
	Users In Chat Room: wm_crash, WildForFish, Mr_Buggy, lohachata, mesapod, Obsidian Come On In!

06-19-2006, 02:30 PM	#4
Vermifugert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 31 Posts: 159	Right now he’s in a 55 and he is already getting too big for it. I’m looking to set up a deeper tank (not necessarily larger) just so he has the room to turn around. I also read they should be kept in groups of a minimum of 3? Is this correct?

06-20-2006, 02:51 PM	#10
JustOneMore20 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Age: 22 Posts: 3,603	Standard 55g tanks are not that wide, only 13 inches. If you have a 10-12 inch fish, it will be hard for him to turn around and may feel very cramped. Good job on setting up a wider tank for him...he'll thank you for it. __________________ *Kristin* 5 Planted tanks: 55g, 40g, 29g, 20g, 5.5g

06-21-2006, 03:27 AM	#14
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100	Gar this, gar that. A gar is basically a name for an elongated predatory fish which looks like a marine garpike. So there are no "true" gars. What you have to remember though is that a needle nose gar is not in the same family as the alligator, spotted, shortnosed, and longnosed gars which are in the family Lepisosteidae. Charican gars are completly different too, and they can be identified by the presence of an adipose fin. At least you know what's right for your fish, and you've bought a bigger tank to provide more space, that's what being a fishkeeper's all about, providing it with all it's needs And thanks for recognising the "philosophy" of this site. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

03-26-2007, 05:37 PM	#15
ganglyfreak Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Age: 28 Posts: 1	alittle help with your actual question ok here's the story i have needle nose and have had them for quite some time now if you really want them to eat something other than feeder minnows take flamingo's advise go down to your local petstore and buy ten large crickets ( green ones they'll probably have wings but they won't fly away) when your putting the bugs in the tank try to make sure that they hit the water feet first as the will sit very still when they're on their backs in the water. I've been feeding my NN's Crickets now for about 6 months (mainly just wanted to see if it would eat them) and they love them after about the first two weeks i had to watch my finger when I was turning over upside down bugs on the surface just about got caught a few times. now Crickets are really cheap but i still recomend a couple minnnows a week as well, I'm not 100% sure but i don't think that a straight bug diet is good for these guys. don't be discuraged if the NN won't eat Bugs right away it took about 6 days and 20 tries to get mine eating them. if you have any other questions just post them you'll get at least a couple straight answers. Ryan that guy with the fish

03-26-2007, 05:41 PM	#16
Scuba Kid Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: RI Age: 18 Posts: 4,224	Look at how old this thread is. I doubt the poster is still looking for information. __________________ Current setups: 1800 gallon koi pond, 10 gallon planted, 150 gallon reef, other FOWLR tanks

03-26-2007, 06:33 PM	#17
flamingo One Word: Croutons. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 17 Posts: 1,899	UGH, more bringing up of needlenose threads. No offense, but the next person who lectures me on them is getting an imaginary slap in the face . __________________ If you put "u" instead of typing out the actual, shocking, three letter word... i'm not going to read your ramblings. I'm so behind it's not even funny.

03-26-2007, 07:15 PM	#18
Ravynnm Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 73	More from a .Com business point of view, than a fish point of view. the point is the fact someone drilled down into the the site to find this thread and make a comment is metrically significant. Primary is that the site is a rich repository of community generated knowledge. If search is adequate, and/or members are willing to drill the combined knowledge is here and accessable. Secondary is the sense of community. It's a volitle. When you create an enviornment like this, you're subject to the fish you catch. Helpful? Arrogant? Willing to share? It takes on its own life based upon the individuals who comprise the community. To date, the wealth of info is awesome. The **************in profanity filter needs work, but what it does is oddly cool. Bizarre but cool. I'm inviting myself to work's next discussion on how to refine ours and usuing you as an example.************ty flies, but **************y doesn't. I'm not going to explore other options. Bashes hand to head. No thread ever goes out of date (business models aside) the info is always relevant to someone. If they found it and want more info, give it to them. Think about how deeply buried it was, how much reading they had to do to find it. Then share with them all the knowledge you gain from the time the thread started and now. Been a while, eh? Rav(y)

03-26-2007, 07:22 PM	#19
Ravynnm Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 73	way cool, I'm betting Im flagged as a high profanity user which alters what it looks for and how it block and present block words. Tech guys, sorry; I'm curious on parameters from a tech point of view. rav(y)

03-26-2007, 07:36 PM	#20
Ravynnm Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 73	More from a .Com business point of view, than a fish point of view. the point is the fact someone drilled down into the the site to find this thread and make a comment is metrically significant. Primary is that the site is a rich repository of community generated knowledge. If search is adequate, and/or members are willing to drill the combined knowledge is here and accessable. Secondary is the sense of community. It's a volitle. When you create an enviornment like this, you're subject to the fish you catch. Helpful? Arrogant? Willing to share? It takes on its own life based upon the individuals who comprise the community. To date, the wealth of info is awesome. The **************in profanity filter needs work, but what it does is oddly cool. Bizarre but cool. I'm inviting myself to work's next discussion on how to refine ours and usuing you as an example.************ty flies, but **************y doesn't. I'm not going to explore other options. Bashes hand to head. No thread ever goes out of date (business models aside) the info is always relevant to someone. If they found it and want more info, give it to them. Think about how deeply buried it was, how much reading they had to do to find it. Then share with them all the knowledge you gain from the time the thread started and now. Been a while, eh? Rav(y)

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