Help! can't stay cool! - Page 3

Durbkat · 06-27-2006, 07:14 PM

Well a heater will not lower the temperature if its a 80F and the heater is set to 66F.

**JustOneMore20** · 06-27-2006, 07:14 PM

The tank is too hot....because of the weather. No air conditioning means the house is probably around 75-80F or more...and so is the tank. A heater won't turn on because the water is already around 80 or so degrees.

Heaters don't lower the temp any.

greenween · 06-28-2006, 08:33 AM

WOW! My internet has been acting funny wouldn't let me on. I really didn't expect to cause so much conflict! I am sorry about that. Whoever said that, ultimately the descision is mine was totally right, its advice. I believe there isn't one method of doing anything and am willing to bet that taking care of pets caters to the individual (both human and pet) Thank You to all of you that had positive things to say (Fish Doc- You Rock!) Some of you had questions about my tanks and this has gotten so long, I can't really remember them all or read them all again, but I have other posts in beginner, betta and goldfish.
Stay cool out there
Its hot!

greenween · 06-30-2006, 01:48 PM

I am sorry to say that after all I tried to do to help, scooby couldn't take any more. Thanks to all who tried to help,even you grumpy ones were entertaining

Anyway, I decided that we should pick our fish based on the ability to heat in winter, but not cool down in summer. Not consistently anyway. My son was actually more understanding than I expected! He still wants a goldfish, but understands he must wait until we have a/c or move to a house with cooler choices. After researching fish that like warmer temps. we decided on the dwarf puffer. We had seen them when we bought scooby. And we went and bought 2 of them. I know...I'll need a bigger tank for them eventually, what else is new

I do have a question though, do they actually "puff" up like the one on finding Nemo? My 4 year old would like to know. I am really enjoying them. They are very curious and remind me of people in an art museum. Going from exhibit to exhibit analyzing each detail. Very cute. Anyway, sometimes a tragedy leads to something pleasantly suprizing

book_em_danio · 06-30-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenween

I am sorry to say that after all I tried to do to help, scooby couldn't take any more. Thanks to all who tried to help,even you grumpy ones were entertaining

Anyway, I decided that we should pick our fish based on the ability to heat in winter, but not cool down in summer. Not consistently anyway. My son was actually more understanding than I expected! He still wants a goldfish, but understands he must wait until we have a/c or move to a house with cooler choices. After researching fish that like warmer temps. we decided on the dwarf puffer. We had seen them when we bought scooby. And we went and bought 2 of them. I know...I'll need a bigger tank for them eventually, what else is new

I do have a question though, do they actually "puff" up like the one on finding Nemo? My 4 year old would like to know. I am really enjoying them. They are very curious and remind me of people in an art museum. Going from exhibit to exhibit analyzing each detail. Very cute. Anyway, sometimes a tragedy leads to something pleasantly suprizing

Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.

Fishboy93 · 06-30-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by book_em_danio

Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.

Dwarf Puffers arent brackish fish.....strictly fresh. Not trying to start a fight here...

Vermifugert · 07-01-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by book_em_danio

Puffer is not a good beginner's fish... I'd seriously consider some non Marine/Brackish fishes right now.

Next time you could at least answer his questions.... please stop forcing your views on other members. This board has a low tolerance for know it alls.

I pulled this off of 10 things to know about puffers

The Ninth Thing
Dwarf puffers puff. It seems obvious, but there is a rule for all puffers: never let them puff air. If a dwarf puffer inflates itself with air, then its outlook is bleak. Because of the pressure of the water around it, the valves in the puffers' inflation system are usually sealed shut, so once it is full of air, it is usually doomed. When moving dwarf puffers, use a net to catch them and hold them under water, and then use a drinking glass or mug to catch it. Make sure it is under water at all times. Make sure to have a heavy book handy. Even though inhaling air is deadly to them, they silly things love to jump out of tight spaces.

The Tenth Thing
Dwarf puffers are, without doubt, among the most feature rich in personality traits of all fish. As such, they are often found zooming around the front of the tank whenever their owner is near. They will come to recognize you as their owner, and will learn when they are about to be fed. Do not be surprised to find your dwarf puffer puffing itself up in protest to not being fed! If this ever happens, the best thing to do is to feed them a little and quickly, so they will deflate themselves and do themselves no harm or stress

book_em_danio · 07-01-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishboy93

Dwarf Puffers arent brackish fish.....strictly fresh. Not trying to start a fight here...

I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...

Colomesus psittacus

Tetraodon biocellatus

Tetraodon erythrotaenia

Tetraodon fluviatilis

Tetraodon nigroviridis

Shall I go on with more? How about marine? Not trying to start a fight, but I can back up ANYTHING I say. Can you? Obviously not anything about puffers...

Vermifugert · 07-01-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by book_em_danio

I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...

Colomesus psittacus

Tetraodon biocellatus

Tetraodon erythrotaenia

Tetraodon fluviatilis

Tetraodon nigroviridis

Shall I go on with more? How about marine? Not trying to start a fight, but I can back up ANYTHING I say. Can you? Obviously not anything about puffers...

Taken from the Dwarf Puffer Web site

This subject is one of great confusion! If you search for the scientific names of Dwarf Puffers, you will come up with names like: Tetraodon travancoricus, Monotreta travancoricus and Carinotetraodon imitator.

I eventually learned that there are only two species (or variants): Carinotetraodon travancoricus and Carinotetraodon imitator. This information was provided to me at the Pufferfish Yahoo Group in two particular posts:

LinearChaos writes - "Ebert's book has all three of the dwarf puffers under Carinotetraodon...Carinotetraodon travancoricus (for the usually seen dwarf and the blue green) and Carinotetraodon imitator.

I've never heard of the others and I would stick with Carinotetraodon as a constant for the dwarf."

RTR writes - "To my understanding, the dwarf puffers (both species or both variants, whichever they turn out to be) should be called Carinotetraodon, as they have the keel/crest which is a determining characteristic for Carinotetraodon versus Tetraodon. Most taxonomists consider Monotreta a junior synonym for Tetraodon."

Below are photos of the male and female of each type. We are not quite sure if they are actually two different species:

Vermifugert · 07-01-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by book_em_danio

I am terrible... so here it goes, here's a few brackish puffers...

Colomesus psittacus

Tetraodon biocellatus

Tetraodon erythrotaenia

Tetraodon fluviatilis

Tetraodon nigroviridis

Shall I go on with more? How about marine? Not trying to start a fight, but I can back up ANYTHING I say. Can you? Obviously not anything about puffers...

Here is a little more to learned you:

Taken from Dwarfpuffers.com

Water Parameters

Dwarf puffers are quite hardy and can tolerate a variety of water conditions. For them to be healthy and happy, though, you should try to give them the best conditions possible. Keep in mind that Dwarf Puffers are 100% freshwater fish! They can tolerate small increases in salinity but are at optimum health in pure freshwater.

Temperature - While they can tolerate a broad range of temperatures, dwarf puffers seem to do best with a temperature of at least 80F (26C).
PH - A PH of at least 7.0 is best.
Nitrites and Ammonia - As with any fish, you want to keep these down to 0 at all times.

book_em_danio · 07-01-2006, 05:27 PM

Those looking to "one up" me better try harder...

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/puffers.htm

Freshwater and Brackish Pufferfish

Listed below are many of the species of puffers which normally inhabit fresh and brackish waters. There is some confusion regarding the naming of puffer species, especially with regard to the common names used! The scientific names listed below have been carefully cross-checked with the most up-to-date sources available. There is also some debate about whether some species are freshwater or brackish. The truth in many cases is that some species may occasionally wander into both types of water. Therefore, the information given below gives the water in which it is normally found, or in which it is said to do best in aquaria, according to the majority of reliable sources. Follow the links to more info on individual species.

Table doesn't copy and paste, but follow the link.

The Aquarium Encyclopedia
Edited by: Gunther Sterba, English Edition by **** Mills
Photography: A. Van Den Nieuwenhuizen
World Copyright 1978, This Edition 1986, Published by The MIT Press

Note: * denotes another entry in the encyclopedia. Abbreviations as follows:

D = dorsal fin

Coh = cohort

D1 = 1st dorsal fin

O = order

D2 = 2nd dorsal fin or adipose fin

Sub-O = Sub-order

C = caudal or tail fin

Ga = genera

An = Anal Fin

F = Family

V = ventral fin

G = genus

P = Pectoral fin

Tetraodon. LINNAEUS, 1758. G of the Tetraodontidae*
Contains species that live in the fresh waters and coastal areas of tropical Africa, SE Asia, Australia and the Philippines. Some live in pure fresh water (T. mbu, T. schoutedeni, T. miurus, etc.) whereas others also live in brackish water (e.g. T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis). Tetraodon species are territorial fish, prone to biting. The eat small animals, using their strong dental plates to crush molluscs, crustaceans and insect larvae; T. mirius especially likes to prey on smaller fish.

The species of Tetraodon have a typical family build and they are between 8 and 75 cm long. Many have small soft spines in their leathery skin which they can erect by puffing themselves up. (T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis, T. leiurus, etc.). An important recognition feature is the number and shape of the tentacles around the nose. Within the G, there are both substrate spawners (T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. leiurus brevirostris) and open water spawners like T. schoutedeni, in which 1-2 males bite firmly onto the ventral side of the female during the spawning act.

Pufferfishes are extremely charming and long lived members of an aquarium - they even get to know their keepers ‘personally’ sometimes. Some individual T. fluviatilis specimens have been known to live for 9 years in the aquarium. Apart from the pure freshwater species from Africa that require water that is not too hard and a bit peaty, most of the others are happiest in hard, slightly alkali water or even brackish water. A particular problem with this G is that many of the species are intolerant of one another, and some also of other species. They can give quite a painful nip, and despite their plumpish build they are quite agile.

They should be fed with all kinds of animal food, especially hard shelled food like snails, plus mealworms and earthworms; usually, feeding should present no problems. A lack of desire to eat. discolouration (the black colour noticeable on the ventral side), continual curving around of the tail and emaciation are typical disease symptoms. In a lot of cases, the specimens are cured by putting them into brackish water. In many specimens the teeth start to grow abnormally; they can be cut off carefully using a sharpened pair of fine nail clippers, or similar.

Some of the species have been bred successfully (T. cutcutia, T. leiurus brevirostris, T. fluviatilis, T. schoutedeni). The substrate spawners lay their eggs on rocks. There are about 200-300 eggs with T. cutcutia, 300-500 with T. leiurus brevirostris. As far as we know, only the males carry out brood care. With T. leiurus, care ends with the hatching of the fry, but with the other species mentioned, the males still guard the youngsters and keep them safely in shallow grooves. Infusorians, nauplii (Cyclops, Artemia), rotifers and microworms (Tubatrix*) etc. are suitable foods for rearing them on. The young fish are still tolerant of one another, unlike the older specimens that form territories. The young even form groups sometimes, e.g. T. leiurus brevirostris. The following species are imported fairly often:

-T. cutcutia (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1822); Common Pufferfish, Globefish. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 8 cm. No spines on the skin. Nasal tentacles undivided. Grey-yellow with fairly dark flecks and a fine honeycomb patterning.

-T. fluviatilis (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1812); Green puffer, Figure Eight Puffer. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, the Philippines where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 17 cm. Short forked nasal tentacles. Yellow-green with very variable dark dots and bands. Mostly fairly peaceful. Leaves small fishes unmolested.

-T. leiurus brevirostris (BENL, 1957). From Thailand (?). Length to 12 cm. Snout short and truncated. Each nasal slit bears a tentacle That is divided at the end into 2 lips. Spiny skin. Grey-yellow with a dense covering of dark flecks. During the spawning act, the flecks are pale on a dark background. Prone to biting. A sub-species of T. leiurus leiurus BLEEKER, 1850.

-T. mbu BOULENGER, 1899; Gold-ringed puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 75 cm. Fairly elongate. 2 nasal tentacles in each slit, divided like a fork. Head and body covered with fine spines. Dorsal surface and flanks covered in dark, worm-like lines on a yellow to orange background colour. When young, has large dots.

-T. mirius BOULENGER, 1902; Valise Puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 15 cm. Eyes small, directed upwards. Has a striking capacity for changing colour, usually patterned in brownish/sandy colours. Buries itself into the sand up to its eyes. Very prone to biting. Eats small fish.

-T. palembangensis BLEEKER, 1852; Figure Eight Puffer. From Thailand, Sumatra, Kalimantan (Borneo), where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 20 cm. There is a nasal tentacle on both sides. Upper side of the body dark with yellow or green patterns of stripes that form a closed ring below the D. Survives better in brackish and sea water than it does in pure fresh water.

-T. schoutedeni PELLEGRIN, 1926; Leopard Puffer. From the lower Congo, only in fresh water. Female 10 cm, male smaller. Similar to T. fluviatilis. 2 long, forked nasal tentacles on both sides. Dark dots on an ochre-coloured background. One of the most peaceful of Pufferfishes!

Tetraodontidae; Pufferfishes Family of the Tetraodontiformes*, Sub-O Tetraodontoidei. Found in warm seas, in brackish water, and a very few in fresh water. Pufferfishes have an oblong shape and the caudal peduncle is elongated to a greater or lesser extent. Mouth small with ridges of teeth on the jaws which add up to form a kind of beak that always protrudes slightly; the beak consists of teeth that are fused. There is a suture between the right and left tooth ridge of the upper and lower jaw, which is where the name Tetraodontidae comes from (= four toothed).

Pufferfishes move by using their Ps like a propeller, sometimes also the short D and An. The rounded C is only used for steering, in conjunction with the caudal peduncle. No Vs. Skin naked or covered with triaxial spines which are laid down, pointing backwards, when at rest. The Tetraodontidae glide peacefully through the water and are very agile; they can also turn on the spot or swim backwards. All Pufferfishes have a special extension of the stomach which spreads to below the skin of the breast and belly areas; when danger threatens, it can be filled with water or air, and at the same time, the spines become erect. This makes the fish look bigger in the eyes of a potential attacker, and it can also blow the water it has taken in towards its enemy.

Pufferfishes often blow themselves up like this when they are trapped in a net. The flesh of many species contains the well-known tetraodotoxin- a strong nerve poison. Pufferfishes are very important in aquarium-keeping. See under the Ga Arothron*, Canthigaster*, Carinotetraodon*, Colomesus*, Tetraodon*. You will also find further details there about their biology.

Tetraodontiformes; Pufferfish-types. O of the Osteichthyes*, Coh Teleostei. Also known as the O Plectognathi, this O embraces a whole series of Fs, some of which at first sight seem to have no similarities. Nevertheless, they do form a relatively uniform group. This is difficult to prove from any external features and demands comparison studies of the skeleton, particularly of the skull. Here, a fusion of the premaxilla and maxilla is only hinted at, there are no parietal bones and the number of vertebrae is small.

From the outside, features to note are the very small, non-protrusible mouth and small, hole-shaped gill slits. The individual groups also have certain parallels in behaviour patterns. The jaws may carry individual teeth or beak-like teeth-ridges. Often, the Vs are missing and with them also the pelvic bones. The skin may be scaled or naked, or it may be covered with large spines or bony plates.

Nearly all Tetraodontiformes live in tropical and sub-tropical seas, with only a few species from fresh water areas. The Tetraodontiformes are related to the Acanthuroidei*, and the oldest fossils date from the early Tertiary period. GREENWOOD and colleagues (1966) distinguish between 2 Sub-Os, the Balistoidei containing the Fs Balistidae*, Ostraciontidae*, Triacanthidae* and the Tetraodontoidei containing the Fs Diodontidae*, Molidae*, Tetraodontidae* and Triodontidae*, See also the system under the heading Osteichthyes.

Carinotetraodon BENL, 1957. G of Tetraodontidae*. One well-known species in fresh water of South East Asia. The males of these Pufferfish (which in other respects have a typical shape of their family) erect during display a comb-like crest along their back and a sharp ventral keel like the marine species of the G Canthigaster*. They are territory-forming and therefore incompatible with members of their own species and also, to some extent, with other fish. The small fish are very suitable for keeping in aquaria. Breeding has been successful. Both parents care for the young.

-C. lorteti (TIRANT, 1885) (C. somphongsi, name not in current usage); Comb Pufferfish. Thailand, in fresh water. To 6.5 cm. Males greyish yellow with blue C; females more varied in colour, mainly plain yellowish with irregular dark spots.

Colomesus FOWLER, 1911. G of Tetraodontidae*. The habitat of Colomesus is tropical S. America, where they live in fresh water and brackish waters. They reach a size of up to 20 cm. Their shape is typical of their family. They are fairly timid fish in the aquarium and need plenty of oxygen. Nothing is known about their reproduction. The species imported most is:
-C. psittacus (SCHNEIDER, 1801); Parrot Pufferfish. West Indies, Amazon Basin. To 20 cm. Back olive-green with 6 black saddle markings. Stomach whitish.

Disease in Puffer fish is seldom this simple. Hopefully in the near future I will be able to provide some symptom charts and medicines that have had good results.
If this procedure is to be attempted, various safely measures should be taken. Wear thick rubber gloves that have never been used with soap or cleaning chemicals. They will protect your hands from the business end of the fish, and your skin from possible absorption of the tetraodotoxin should the fish become distressed enough to excrete it from the skin. Also, moving the fish in a separate container is recommended, this way you can place the container and fish at the most advantageous position. The container will also prevent any tetrodotoxin released from the puffer from being in the main tank. Not all species can release the poison from the skin apparently, but it is best to take precautions as it will also affect the puffer if concentrated in the tank water.. Larger species have been known to sever digits from unsuspecting sushi chefs.
There has been mention of some infusoria and paramecium that are bad for puffer fish fry. There can be aggressive organisms that can kill the fry. Suggestion has been made to acquire African paramecium, local breeders may be a good source for a starter culture.
The Figure Eight name has been erroneously connected with T. fluviatilis, I have seen this many times, and it would seem that somewhere along the line it was used with this species, and the error has been perpetuated. T. palembangensis, T. biocellatus, T. steindachneri are the species commonly associated with the Figure Eight name. T. palembangensis is actually a completely different species in form, having the appearance of the T. suvattii and T. miurus. The common species confused with T. fluviatilis are Tetraodon nigroviridis (or nigrifilis), and T. schoutedeni, as all are spotted on a green or yellow background. Variations between these are hotly debated, with perhaps T. schoutedeni being the easier to separately identify, and much debate over whether the other species names are the same animal or not.
There are species found in cold water seas, Eastern US seaboard and the English Channel are examples.
The Dwarf Puffer is recently available to aquarists: Tetraodon travancorius, AKA Carinotetraodon travancorius, and Carinotetraodon imitator. They are hard to tell apart, see link to Erwin Schramml’s page. These species also have the comb on the belly, and a corresponding stripe when in display mode. Originally classified as Monotretus travancorius, they have been reclassified once into the G Tetraodon, and now proposed into Carinotetraodon.
Colomesus asellus is perhaps more common of an import now. Commonly called a South American (SA) or Brazilian.

I can copy and paste data to prove my point too

book_em_danio · 07-01-2006, 05:28 PM

Oh what the heck... here's some more...
http://www.pufferlist.com/brackindex.htm

To say puffers are strictly freshwater only invites proof contrary. It get's some folks all worked up when I post anything... This is why I must continue to post or perhaps they will get a life???

book_em_danio · 07-01-2006, 05:33 PM

I'm on a roll...

http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/interview_damien_wagaman.php

Fishboy93 · 07-01-2006, 05:47 PM

i just wanted to make sure he didnt add salt and harm his new fish... I apologize if i seemed as though i was attempting to one up you our anything... im not one to fight.

Vermifugert · 07-01-2006, 05:48 PM

Watch who you Are insulting. Read this tread carefully and you will realize greenween was speaking specifically of Dwarf Puffers. I have no doubt that other varieties of puffer fish are in existence. It looks like you did a great job of compiling all of them. Hats off to you.

Now try and stay on topic

greenween · 07-02-2006, 10:53 AM

So, somehow I always manage to stir up controversy...unintentionally. I assure you they are dwarf puffers. They are the teeny tiny ones with the spots. I actually researched them before I went to the store. I really wanted to be sure that I'd be able to take care of them. Especially after losing 2 goldfish. Being freshwater it seems to me that the hardest thing about them is cutting a small enough chunk off of their frozen food! I tried to give some to our betta but because they sink he won't touch them. I thawed 1/2 a cube and was AMAZED at how much food that is. Otherwise, and funny enough, the temp. has stayed right at 80 since I got them. Just thought I'd let the concerned citizens know, I did my homework this time. There will hopefully be no more fishy casualties in my near future. Until the puffers (huff and puff) are bigger and need a bigger home, I think we'll stick with what we have. I have thought about planting our bettas tank. Is 1 gal. too small for a plant or two? It seems to help keep the water more stable and I think bloo may like them. Anyway, thank you all for your worries. Its nice to be supported, even if its sort of cantankerous!

oh yeah, greenween is a woman!

Vermifugert · 07-02-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenween

So, somehow I always manage to stir up controversy...unintentionally. I assure you they are dwarf puffers. They are the teeny tiny ones with the spots. I actually researched them before I went to the store. I really wanted to be sure that I'd be able to take care of them. Especially after losing 2 goldfish. Being freshwater it seems to me that the hardest thing about them is cutting a small enough chunk off of their frozen food! I tried to give some to our betta but because they sink he won't touch them. I thawed 1/2 a cube and was AMAZED at how much food that is. Otherwise, and funny enough, the temp. has stayed right at 80 since I got them. Just thought I'd let the concerned citizens know, I did my homework this time. There will hopefully be no more fishy casualties in my near future. Until the puffers (huff and puff) are bigger and need a bigger home, I think we'll stick with what we have. I have thought about planting our bettas tank. Is 1 gal. too small for a plant or two? It seems to help keep the water more stable and I think bloo may like them. Anyway, thank you all for your worries. Its nice to be supported, even if its sort of cantankerous!

oh yeah, greenween is a woman!

LOL good to know!

bpswim90 · 07-02-2006, 01:06 PM

if you want to cool your tank I suggest using ice. Just fill a small ziploc bag with ice and see if it cools your tank enough. If it doesn't, add more ice than before once it all melts. Keep in mind you'll have to replace the bag several times during the day if you really want to keep the water cool.

By the way, I have done this with both coldwater and tropical fish and have had no deaths nor any signs of stress.

Vermifugert · 07-05-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpswim90

if you want to cool your tank I suggest using ice. Just fill a small ziploc bag with ice and see if it cools your tank enough. If it doesn't, add more ice than before once it all melts. Keep in mind you'll have to replace the bag several times during the day if you really want to keep the water cool.

By the way, I have done this with both coldwater and tropical fish and have had no deaths nor any signs of stress.

What would you say the upper limit is for most tropical cichlids?

|V|][{|-|/\[-|_ · 07-06-2006, 12:56 PM

Hi, greenwen! I'm a little too secure to type a post that's longer than most books to convince myself that I'm smarter than someone who disagrees with me, so I'll just wish you good luck with your new little critters.

I'm glad to hear you did your research before purchasing, and I'm sure that as you keep them, you will learn even more about these guys. Keep us posted on how they do.

P.S. (better get started with a rebuttal to this, danio...the thread may be dried up by the time you're finished) When you get a bigger tank, I'd invest in some more dwarf puffers. From what I've read, they can be nippy and cranky with other fish, including one another. Having more will help spread out the nipping and, from what I've read, bring out their personality even more, whatever that means.

06-27-2006, 07:14 PM	#42
JustOneMore20 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alabama, US Age: 22 Posts: 3,487	The tank is too hot....because of the weather. No air conditioning means the house is probably around 75-80F or more...and so is the tank. A heater won't turn on because the water is already around 80 or so degrees. Heaters don't lower the temp any. __________________ *Kristin* 5 Planted tanks: 55g, 40g, 29g, 10g, 5.5g 10g N. multifasciatus tank, 5.5g Platy fry

06-30-2006, 01:48 PM	#44
greenween LunaTick-in a good way! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Missoula, MT Age: 32 Posts: 36	Update I am sorry to say that after all I tried to do to help, scooby couldn't take any more. Thanks to all who tried to help,even you grumpy ones were entertaining Anyway, I decided that we should pick our fish based on the ability to heat in winter, but not cool down in summer. Not consistently anyway. My son was actually more understanding than I expected! He still wants a goldfish, but understands he must wait until we have a/c or move to a house with cooler choices. After researching fish that like warmer temps. we decided on the dwarf puffer. We had seen them when we bought scooby. And we went and bought 2 of them. I know...I'll need a bigger tank for them eventually, what else is new I do have a question though, do they actually "puff" up like the one on finding Nemo? My 4 year old would like to know. I am really enjoying them. They are very curious and remind me of people in an art museum. Going from exhibit to exhibit analyzing each detail. Very cute. Anyway, sometimes a tragedy leads to something pleasantly suprizing

07-01-2006, 05:28 PM	#52
book_em_danio Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 103	Oh what the heck... here's some more... http://www.pufferlist.com/brackindex.htm To say puffers are strictly freshwater only invites proof contrary. It get's some folks all worked up when I post anything... This is why I must continue to post or perhaps they will get a life??? Last edited by book_em_danio; 07-01-2006 at 05:34 PM.

07-01-2006, 05:47 PM	#54
Fishboy93 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Age: 15 Posts: 658	i just wanted to make sure he didnt add salt and harm his new fish... I apologize if i seemed as though i was attempting to one up you our anything... im not one to fight. __________________ 29 Gallon Reef

07-01-2006, 05:48 PM	#55
Vermifugert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Age: 31 Posts: 159	Watch who you Are insulting. Read this tread carefully and you will realize greenween was speaking specifically of Dwarf Puffers. I have no doubt that other varieties of puffer fish are in existence. It looks like you did a great job of compiling all of them. Hats off to you. Now try and stay on topic Last edited by Vermifugert; 07-01-2006 at 10:47 PM.

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06-27-2006, 07:14 PM	#41
Durbkat It's the Evil Monkey!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kentucky Age: 17 Posts: 1,112	Well a heater will not lower the temperature if its a 80F and the heater is set to 66F.

06-28-2006, 08:33 AM	#43
greenween LunaTick-in a good way! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Missoula, MT Age: 32 Posts: 36	WOW! My internet has been acting funny wouldn't let me on. I really didn't expect to cause so much conflict! I am sorry about that. Whoever said that, ultimately the descision is mine was totally right, its advice. I believe there isn't one method of doing anything and am willing to bet that taking care of pets caters to the individual (both human and pet) Thank You to all of you that had positive things to say (Fish Doc- You Rock!) Some of you had questions about my tanks and this has gotten so long, I can't really remember them all or read them all again, but I have other posts in beginner, betta and goldfish. Stay cool out there Its hot!

07-01-2006, 05:27 PM	#51
book_em_danio Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 103	Those looking to "one up" me better try harder... http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/puffers.htm Freshwater and Brackish Pufferfish Listed below are many of the species of puffers which normally inhabit fresh and brackish waters. There is some confusion regarding the naming of puffer species, especially with regard to the common names used! The scientific names listed below have been carefully cross-checked with the most up-to-date sources available. There is also some debate about whether some species are freshwater or brackish. The truth in many cases is that some species may occasionally wander into both types of water. Therefore, the information given below gives the water in which it is normally found, or in which it is said to do best in aquaria, according to the majority of reliable sources. Follow the links to more info on individual species. Table doesn't copy and paste, but follow the link. The Aquarium Encyclopedia Edited by: Gunther Sterba, English Edition by **** Mills Photography: A. Van Den Nieuwenhuizen World Copyright 1978, This Edition 1986, Published by The MIT Press Note: * denotes another entry in the encyclopedia. Abbreviations as follows: D = dorsal fin Coh = cohort D1 = 1st dorsal fin O = order D2 = 2nd dorsal fin or adipose fin Sub-O = Sub-order C = caudal or tail fin Ga = genera An = Anal Fin F = Family V = ventral fin G = genus P = Pectoral fin Tetraodon. LINNAEUS, 1758. G of the Tetraodontidae* Contains species that live in the fresh waters and coastal areas of tropical Africa, SE Asia, Australia and the Philippines. Some live in pure fresh water (T. mbu, T. schoutedeni, T. miurus, etc.) whereas others also live in brackish water (e.g. T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis). Tetraodon species are territorial fish, prone to biting. The eat small animals, using their strong dental plates to crush molluscs, crustaceans and insect larvae; T. mirius especially likes to prey on smaller fish. The species of Tetraodon have a typical family build and they are between 8 and 75 cm long. Many have small soft spines in their leathery skin which they can erect by puffing themselves up. (T. fluviatilis, T. palembangensis, T. leiurus, etc.). An important recognition feature is the number and shape of the tentacles around the nose. Within the G, there are both substrate spawners (T. cutcutia, T. fluviatilis, T. leiurus brevirostris) and open water spawners like T. schoutedeni, in which 1-2 males bite firmly onto the ventral side of the female during the spawning act. Pufferfishes are extremely charming and long lived members of an aquarium - they even get to know their keepers ‘personally’ sometimes. Some individual T. fluviatilis specimens have been known to live for 9 years in the aquarium. Apart from the pure freshwater species from Africa that require water that is not too hard and a bit peaty, most of the others are happiest in hard, slightly alkali water or even brackish water. A particular problem with this G is that many of the species are intolerant of one another, and some also of other species. They can give quite a painful nip, and despite their plumpish build they are quite agile. They should be fed with all kinds of animal food, especially hard shelled food like snails, plus mealworms and earthworms; usually, feeding should present no problems. A lack of desire to eat. discolouration (the black colour noticeable on the ventral side), continual curving around of the tail and emaciation are typical disease symptoms. In a lot of cases, the specimens are cured by putting them into brackish water. In many specimens the teeth start to grow abnormally; they can be cut off carefully using a sharpened pair of fine nail clippers, or similar. Some of the species have been bred successfully (T. cutcutia, T. leiurus brevirostris, T. fluviatilis, T. schoutedeni). The substrate spawners lay their eggs on rocks. There are about 200-300 eggs with T. cutcutia, 300-500 with T. leiurus brevirostris. As far as we know, only the males carry out brood care. With T. leiurus, care ends with the hatching of the fry, but with the other species mentioned, the males still guard the youngsters and keep them safely in shallow grooves. Infusorians, nauplii (Cyclops, Artemia), rotifers and microworms (Tubatrix) etc. are suitable foods for rearing them on. The young fish are still tolerant of one another, unlike the older specimens that form territories. The young even form groups sometimes, e.g. T. leiurus brevirostris. The following species are imported fairly often: -T. cutcutia (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1822); Common Pufferfish, Globefish. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 8 cm. No spines on the skin. Nasal tentacles undivided. Grey-yellow with fairly dark flecks and a fine honeycomb patterning. -T. fluviatilis (HAMILTON-BUCHANAN, 1812); Green puffer, Figure Eight Puffer. From SE Asia, Malaysian Archipelago, the Philippines where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 17 cm. Short forked nasal tentacles. Yellow-green with very variable dark dots and bands. Mostly fairly peaceful. Leaves small fishes unmolested. -T. leiurus brevirostris (BENL, 1957). From Thailand (?). Length to 12 cm. Snout short and truncated. Each nasal slit bears a tentacle That is divided at the end into 2 lips. Spiny skin. Grey-yellow with a dense covering of dark flecks. During the spawning act, the flecks are pale on a dark background. Prone to biting. A sub-species of T. leiurus leiurus BLEEKER, 1850. -T. mbu BOULENGER, 1899; Gold-ringed puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 75 cm. Fairly elongate. 2 nasal tentacles in each slit, divided like a fork. Head and body covered with fine spines. Dorsal surface and flanks covered in dark, worm-like lines on a yellow to orange background colour. When young, has large dots. -T. mirius BOULENGER, 1902; Valise Puffer. From the Congo, only found in fresh water. Length to 15 cm. Eyes small, directed upwards. Has a striking capacity for changing colour, usually patterned in brownish/sandy colours. Buries itself into the sand up to its eyes. Very prone to biting. Eats small fish. -T. palembangensis BLEEKER, 1852; Figure Eight Puffer. From Thailand, Sumatra, Kalimantan (Borneo), where it lives in fresh and brackish water. Length to 20 cm. There is a nasal tentacle on both sides. Upper side of the body dark with yellow or green patterns of stripes that form a closed ring below the D. Survives better in brackish and sea water than it does in pure fresh water. -T. schoutedeni PELLEGRIN, 1926; Leopard Puffer. From the lower Congo, only in fresh water. Female 10 cm, male smaller. Similar to T. fluviatilis. 2 long, forked nasal tentacles on both sides. Dark dots on an ochre-coloured background. One of the most peaceful of Pufferfishes! Tetraodontidae; Pufferfishes Family of the Tetraodontiformes, Sub-O Tetraodontoidei. Found in warm seas, in brackish water, and a very few in fresh water. Pufferfishes have an oblong shape and the caudal peduncle is elongated to a greater or lesser extent. Mouth small with ridges of teeth on the jaws which add up to form a kind of beak that always protrudes slightly; the beak consists of teeth that are fused. There is a suture between the right and left tooth ridge of the upper and lower jaw, which is where the name Tetraodontidae comes from (= four toothed). Pufferfishes move by using their Ps like a propeller, sometimes also the short D and An. The rounded C is only used for steering, in conjunction with the caudal peduncle. No Vs. Skin naked or covered with triaxial spines which are laid down, pointing backwards, when at rest. The Tetraodontidae glide peacefully through the water and are very agile; they can also turn on the spot or swim backwards. All Pufferfishes have a special extension of the stomach which spreads to below the skin of the breast and belly areas; when danger threatens, it can be filled with water or air, and at the same time, the spines become erect. This makes the fish look bigger in the eyes of a potential attacker, and it can also blow the water it has taken in towards its enemy. Pufferfishes often blow themselves up like this when they are trapped in a net. The flesh of many species contains the well-known tetraodotoxin- a strong nerve poison. Pufferfishes are very important in aquarium-keeping. See under the Ga Arothron, Canthigaster, Carinotetraodon, Colomesus, Tetraodon. You will also find further details there about their biology. Tetraodontiformes; Pufferfish-types. O of the Osteichthyes, Coh Teleostei. Also known as the O Plectognathi, this O embraces a whole series of Fs, some of which at first sight seem to have no similarities. Nevertheless, they do form a relatively uniform group. This is difficult to prove from any external features and demands comparison studies of the skeleton, particularly of the skull. Here, a fusion of the premaxilla and maxilla is only hinted at, there are no parietal bones and the number of vertebrae is small. From the outside, features to note are the very small, non-protrusible mouth and small, hole-shaped gill slits. The individual groups also have certain parallels in behaviour patterns. The jaws may carry individual teeth or beak-like teeth-ridges. Often, the Vs are missing and with them also the pelvic bones. The skin may be scaled or naked, or it may be covered with large spines or bony plates. Nearly all Tetraodontiformes live in tropical and sub-tropical seas, with only a few species from fresh water areas. The Tetraodontiformes are related to the Acanthuroidei, and the oldest fossils date from the early Tertiary period. GREENWOOD and colleagues (1966) distinguish between 2 Sub-Os, the Balistoidei containing the Fs Balistidae, Ostraciontidae, Triacanthidae and the Tetraodontoidei containing the Fs Diodontidae, Molidae, Tetraodontidae* and Triodontidae, See also the system under the heading Osteichthyes. Carinotetraodon BENL, 1957. G of Tetraodontidae. One well-known species in fresh water of South East Asia. The males of these Pufferfish (which in other respects have a typical shape of their family) erect during display a comb-like crest along their back and a sharp ventral keel like the marine species of the G Canthigaster. They are territory-forming and therefore incompatible with members of their own species and also, to some extent, with other fish. The small fish are very suitable for keeping in aquaria. Breeding has been successful. Both parents care for the young. -C. lorteti (TIRANT, 1885) (C. somphongsi, name not in current usage); Comb Pufferfish. Thailand, in fresh water. To 6.5 cm. Males greyish yellow with blue C; females more varied in colour, mainly plain yellowish with irregular dark spots. Colomesus FOWLER, 1911. G of Tetraodontidae. The habitat of Colomesus is tropical S. America, where they live in fresh water and brackish waters. They reach a size of up to 20 cm. Their shape is typical of their family. They are fairly timid fish in the aquarium and need plenty of oxygen. Nothing is known about their reproduction. The species imported most is: -C. psittacus (SCHNEIDER, 1801); Parrot Pufferfish. West Indies, Amazon Basin. To 20 cm. Back olive-green with 6 black saddle markings. Stomach whitish. Disease in Puffer fish is seldom this simple. Hopefully in the near future I will be able to provide some symptom charts and medicines that have had good results. If this procedure is to be attempted, various safely measures should be taken. Wear thick rubber gloves that have never been used with soap or cleaning chemicals. They will protect your hands from the business end of the fish, and your skin from possible absorption of the tetraodotoxin should the fish become distressed enough to excrete it from the skin. Also, moving the fish in a separate container is recommended, this way you can place the container and fish at the most advantageous position. The container will also prevent any tetrodotoxin released from the puffer from being in the main tank. Not all species can release the poison from the skin apparently, but it is best to take precautions as it will also affect the puffer if concentrated in the tank water.. Larger species have been known to sever digits from unsuspecting sushi chefs. There has been mention of some infusoria and paramecium that are bad for puffer fish fry. There can be aggressive organisms that can kill the fry. Suggestion has been made to acquire African paramecium, local breeders may be a good source for a starter culture. The Figure Eight name has been erroneously connected with T. fluviatilis, I have seen this many times, and it would seem that somewhere along the line it was used with this species, and the error has been perpetuated. T. palembangensis, T. biocellatus, T. steindachneri are the species commonly associated with the Figure Eight name. T. palembangensis is actually a completely different species in form, having the appearance of the T. suvattii and T. miurus. The common species confused with T. fluviatilis are Tetraodon nigroviridis (or nigrifilis), and T. schoutedeni, as all are spotted on a green or yellow background. Variations between these are hotly debated, with perhaps T. schoutedeni being the easier to separately identify, and much debate over whether the other species names are the same animal or not. There are species found in cold water seas, Eastern US seaboard and the English Channel are examples. The Dwarf Puffer is recently available to aquarists: Tetraodon travancorius, AKA Carinotetraodon travancorius, and Carinotetraodon imitator. They are hard to tell apart, see link to Erwin Schramml’s page. These species also have the comb on the belly, and a corresponding stripe when in display mode. Originally classified as Monotretus travancorius, they have been reclassified once into the G Tetraodon, and now proposed into Carinotetraodon. Colomesus asellus is perhaps more common of an import now. Commonly called a South American (SA) or Brazilian. I can copy and paste data to prove my point too

07-01-2006, 05:33 PM	#53
book_em_danio Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 103	I'm on a roll... http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/interview_damien_wagaman.php

07-02-2006, 10:53 AM	#56
greenween LunaTick-in a good way! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Missoula, MT Age: 32 Posts: 36	So, somehow I always manage to stir up controversy...unintentionally. I assure you they are dwarf puffers. They are the teeny tiny ones with the spots. I actually researched them before I went to the store. I really wanted to be sure that I'd be able to take care of them. Especially after losing 2 goldfish. Being freshwater it seems to me that the hardest thing about them is cutting a small enough chunk off of their frozen food! I tried to give some to our betta but because they sink he won't touch them. I thawed 1/2 a cube and was AMAZED at how much food that is. Otherwise, and funny enough, the temp. has stayed right at 80 since I got them. Just thought I'd let the concerned citizens know, I did my homework this time. There will hopefully be no more fishy casualties in my near future. Until the puffers (huff and puff) are bigger and need a bigger home, I think we'll stick with what we have. I have thought about planting our bettas tank. Is 1 gal. too small for a plant or two? It seems to help keep the water more stable and I think bloo may like them. Anyway, thank you all for your worries. Its nice to be supported, even if its sort of cantankerous! oh yeah, greenween is a woman!

07-02-2006, 01:06 PM	#58
bpswim90 hola Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Missouri Age: 17 Posts: 101	if you want to cool your tank I suggest using ice. Just fill a small ziploc bag with ice and see if it cools your tank enough. If it doesn't, add more ice than before once it all melts. Keep in mind you'll have to replace the bag several times during the day if you really want to keep the water cool. By the way, I have done this with both coldwater and tropical fish and have had no deaths nor any signs of stress. __________________ My Ten Gallon Journal 10 Gallon: 7 Glowlight Tetras Amazon sword, Anacharis, Java Fern, Wisteria, & other stuff ... 36w CF lighting (11 hours daily) and ghetto CO2 5 Gallon QT: Empty + needs to be cleaned

07-06-2006, 12:56 PM	#60
\|V\|][{\|-\|/\[-\|_ Banned $\|V\|][{\|-\|/\[-\|_'s Avatar$ Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 94	Hi, greenwen! I'm a little too secure to type a post that's longer than most books to convince myself that I'm smarter than someone who disagrees with me, so I'll just wish you good luck with your new little critters. I'm glad to hear you did your research before purchasing, and I'm sure that as you keep them, you will learn even more about these guys. Keep us posted on how they do. P.S. (better get started with a rebuttal to this, danio...the thread may be dried up by the time you're finished) When you get a bigger tank, I'd invest in some more dwarf puffers. From what I've read, they can be nippy and cranky with other fish, including one another. Having more will help spread out the nipping and, from what I've read, bring out their personality even more, whatever that means.
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