Get frustradted, many deaths...after 2 month

The Gallonator · 10-27-2006, 03:02 PM

Ok i have a 55 gallon tank, got it set up for about 2 weeks doing a fishless cycle. Then decided to add Bio-Spira. Added Bio-Spira. Added fish 24 hours later. In the 2 months i've had this tank, i've lost one gold gouramui, 15 neons, 3 guppies, 2 platys, one swordtail, one gold snail, one red gouramui, 2 dwarf gouramuis..and i have no idea why. I didnt lose them all at once. I test water every week. The strange thing is, i added 5 cories and another blue gouramui since day one...and they are still fine, infact they look great, but everything else dies in a week or so, so far. Ammonia is 0, nirtrate 0, nitrate 5 ppg, water at 81 degrees and its de-chrolnated tap water. I dunno why some seem other and others alway die?

Thoughts, Tips?

**JustOneMore20** · 10-27-2006, 03:09 PM

Are they showing any signs of disease/illness (i.e. spots, gasping for air, red spots, white stringy poo, etc....)?

It is very strange that your ammonia and nitrItes are 0, yet your fish are dying.

Did you buy them all from the same LFS? It could be that the LFS stock has some type of illness.

What is your water change schedule like (how often, how much)?

The Gallonator · 10-27-2006, 05:05 PM

one of them had some large white spots, but was dead the next day, and that was very recent. Most were from the same store, but i got some others from a differnt store and they still died

**JustOneMore20** · 10-27-2006, 05:12 PM

Do you know your pH?

Was the Bio Spira cool/cold when you added it?

**Scuba Kid** · 10-27-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Was the Bio Spira cool/cold when you added it?

If the bio spira was dead when he added, he would have ammonia/nitrite problems.

This makes me believe tha there is some type of disease causing this. Or, your levels could be high and that reading is not correct. How are you measuring them?

**JustOneMore20** · 10-27-2006, 11:45 PM

Quote:

If the bio spira was dead when he added, he would have ammonia/nitrite problems.

I know this. I was just wondering if maybe he had an ammonia or nitrite spike, but didn't catch it when he was testing. If you only test once a week, you could have a spike (ammonia or nitrite...probably not both) within that time I would think. Or if the test kit wasn't good you wouldn't catch it.

I'm just asking questions to get more information.

joe kool · 10-28-2006, 09:45 AM

wouldn't an ammonia spike trigger a Nitrite spike? as the breakdown of the elevated ammonia increased so would the output of nitrite then nitrate ... at least that the way I understand it to work

an if you have a nitrite spike chances are you missed the higer level of ammonia that triggered the nitrite to raise in the first place.

**JustOneMore20** · 10-28-2006, 10:44 AM

Gallon, did the fish act different before they died? Any gasping, hanging out by themselves, not eating? I also think it could be disease, but its strange that they had no symptoms. So, I'm not really sure what killed them.

What is your pH reading?

Also, how long after you added the fish to the tank did they die?

The Gallonator · 10-28-2006, 12:22 PM

one or two of the guppies or gouramis would hang near the top, but not all of them, and not all the time. Checked PH its just slightly hard. Vacd the bottom and did a 30% change after i lost two more neons. I've been measureing everything with test kits. I have natural rock, but its aquarium safe. Most of the fish would last about a week or two. I did have one nitrate spike, but i caught it quickly and did a big water change. Ammonia alsways reads 0. I'll let u know what else i do

Puffer Pita · 10-28-2006, 12:28 PM

Are you using any other additives other than a declorinator? How did you acclimate the fish when you first added them? Did you add them all at once? Did you make sure to get the large package of Biospira?

The Gallonator · 10-28-2006, 05:06 PM

i got oversized (90 gallon) bio spira and added them all within 24 hours like your supposted to. I added just a few drops of ammonia the firstday. The only other additive i used is stablize to add more bacteria as i did water changes.

rcomeau · 10-28-2006, 05:48 PM

Is Bio-Spira really meant to provide an instant population of bacteria or is it meant to provide some seed bacteria that still needs to multiply by being fed with ammonia->nitrite->nitrate? I'm asking because the time frames mentioned (2 weeks, 24 hours, then fish) are too short if the Bio-Spira doesn't contain enough bacteria to instantly establish a bacteria population. Also, there was no mention of adding ammonia and testing to see that it isn't there the next day. If Bio-Spira is only meant to provide enough bacteria to seed a bacteria population, the tank might not be cycled yet. Water changes keep the spikes under control but they are still trying to occur anyway.

Causes of deaths after 2 months is a good question. I had a few myself. They were particularly sad because they were full grown fish raised in smaller tanks and I was very careful to cycle the new tank. I had a good test kit and didn't see anything wrong. Likewise, I brought water into my LFS and they didn't see anything wrong.

Puffer Pita · 10-28-2006, 05:57 PM

Biospira adds instant population of bacteria. Fish are to be added anywhere from right away to up to 24 hours later. I've used it on almost all of my tanks without any problem.

Stablize does not have the necessary live bacteria needed for the cycle. Its a useless product. Nothing additional should be needed with water changes other than declorinator.

I'm leaning towards the idea that they weren't well to begin with. Even if they were from different LFSes, there are only a few importers and shippers in the US, so the chances are pretty good that they came from the same source.

The Gallonator · 10-28-2006, 07:05 PM

I'm really sure i just figured out what was wrong....my poor fishies..i'm such a dumbass

I've be noticing a complete lack of alge anywhere in the tank, and though it was strange. Then it hit me. I went to look, what i though i grabbed at the store was water dechorlonator, but what i got by accident was just water clarifier....my poor fishes been getting a slow death of chorline and heavy metals.

Needless to say i added dechorlonator ASAP. God i feel dumb, poor fishies. I'll kep a very close eye on them for a few days, but i'm 99% sure that was the problem.

joe kool · 10-29-2006, 01:46 PM

and I'd be willing to bet your bio spiria is toast as well so you'll be starting from scratch ... or pretty close.

girth vader · 10-29-2006, 09:04 PM

sounds like your doing a cycle now with fish, u may lose a cpl more before the tank is finishes cycling. It's the nature of the beast when starting out. live and learn

The Gallonator · 10-30-2006, 09:22 AM

naw, i thought about that, and got a filter from another tank. But thanks for reminding me though

10-27-2006, 03:02 PM	#1
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	Get frustradted, many deaths...after 2 month Ok i have a 55 gallon tank, got it set up for about 2 weeks doing a fishless cycle. Then decided to add Bio-Spira. Added Bio-Spira. Added fish 24 hours later. In the 2 months i've had this tank, i've lost one gold gouramui, 15 neons, 3 guppies, 2 platys, one swordtail, one gold snail, one red gouramui, 2 dwarf gouramuis..and i have no idea why. I didnt lose them all at once. I test water every week. The strange thing is, i added 5 cories and another blue gouramui since day one...and they are still fine, infact they look great, but everything else dies in a week or so, so far. Ammonia is 0, nirtrate 0, nitrate 5 ppg, water at 81 degrees and its de-chrolnated tap water. I dunno why some seem other and others alway die? Thoughts, Tips?

10-27-2006, 03:09 PM	#2
JustOneMore20 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Age: 22 Posts: 3,602	Are they showing any signs of disease/illness (i.e. spots, gasping for air, red spots, white stringy poo, etc....)? It is very strange that your ammonia and nitrItes are 0, yet your fish are dying. Did you buy them all from the same LFS? It could be that the LFS stock has some type of illness. What is your water change schedule like (how often, how much)? __________________ *Kristin* 5 Planted tanks: 55g, 40g, 29g, 20g, 5.5g

10-27-2006, 05:12 PM	#4
JustOneMore20 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Age: 22 Posts: 3,602	Do you know your pH? Was the Bio Spira cool/cold when you added it? __________________ *Kristin* 5 Planted tanks: 55g, 40g, 29g, 20g, 5.5g

10-28-2006, 09:45 AM	#7
joe kool Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 572	wouldn't an ammonia spike trigger a Nitrite spike? as the breakdown of the elevated ammonia increased so would the output of nitrite then nitrate ... at least that the way I understand it to work an if you have a nitrite spike chances are you missed the higer level of ammonia that triggered the nitrite to raise in the first place. __________________ A conglomeration of cichlids from all over living happily in my "melting pot" of tanks. Breeding: currently nothing ... I'm sequestered in South Korea, "Osan" to be exact 2 days till I'm back in the states!!!! Florida to be exact, those Floridians have no idea what they're in for!! current Fry: see above tanks: 100, 55, 46 BF, 26 BF, 20L, 5 fry tank 20L planted with CRS is the only thing up (easy for the wife to care for in my stead)

10-28-2006, 10:44 AM	#8
JustOneMore20 Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Age: 22 Posts: 3,602	Gallon, did the fish act different before they died? Any gasping, hanging out by themselves, not eating? I also think it could be disease, but its strange that they had no symptoms. So, I'm not really sure what killed them. What is your pH reading? Also, how long after you added the fish to the tank did they die? __________________ *Kristin* 5 Planted tanks: 55g, 40g, 29g, 20g, 5.5g

Members currently in the Chat:7
	Users In Chat Room: wm_crash, mudskipper26, WildForFish, Mr_Buggy, lohachata, mesapod, Obsidian Come On In!

10-27-2006, 05:05 PM	#3
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	one of them had some large white spots, but was dead the next day, and that was very recent. Most were from the same store, but i got some others from a differnt store and they still died

10-28-2006, 12:22 PM	#9
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	one or two of the guppies or gouramis would hang near the top, but not all of them, and not all the time. Checked PH its just slightly hard. Vacd the bottom and did a 30% change after i lost two more neons. I've been measureing everything with test kits. I have natural rock, but its aquarium safe. Most of the fish would last about a week or two. I did have one nitrate spike, but i caught it quickly and did a big water change. Ammonia alsways reads 0. I'll let u know what else i do Last edited by The Gallonator; 10-28-2006 at 12:37 PM.

10-28-2006, 12:28 PM	#10
Puffer Pita Puffer Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,677	Are you using any other additives other than a declorinator? How did you acclimate the fish when you first added them? Did you add them all at once? Did you make sure to get the large package of Biospira? __________________ Tina Puffers: Auriglobus silus x2 Colomesus asellus x1 Tetraodon travancoricus x1 Tetraodon biocellatus x2 Tetraodon nigroviridis x1 Tetraodon baileyi x2 Tetraodon lineatus x1 Tetraodon palembangensis x1 The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi

10-28-2006, 05:06 PM	#11
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	i got oversized (90 gallon) bio spira and added them all within 24 hours like your supposted to. I added just a few drops of ammonia the firstday. The only other additive i used is stablize to add more bacteria as i did water changes.

10-28-2006, 05:48 PM	#12
rcomeau Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 43 Posts: 91	Is Bio-Spira really meant to provide an instant population of bacteria or is it meant to provide some seed bacteria that still needs to multiply by being fed with ammonia->nitrite->nitrate? I'm asking because the time frames mentioned (2 weeks, 24 hours, then fish) are too short if the Bio-Spira doesn't contain enough bacteria to instantly establish a bacteria population. Also, there was no mention of adding ammonia and testing to see that it isn't there the next day. If Bio-Spira is only meant to provide enough bacteria to seed a bacteria population, the tank might not be cycled yet. Water changes keep the spikes under control but they are still trying to occur anyway. Causes of deaths after 2 months is a good question. I had a few myself. They were particularly sad because they were full grown fish raised in smaller tanks and I was very careful to cycle the new tank. I had a good test kit and didn't see anything wrong. Likewise, I brought water into my LFS and they didn't see anything wrong. Last edited by rcomeau; 10-28-2006 at 05:53 PM.

10-28-2006, 05:57 PM	#13
Puffer Pita Puffer Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,677	Biospira adds instant population of bacteria. Fish are to be added anywhere from right away to up to 24 hours later. I've used it on almost all of my tanks without any problem. Stablize does not have the necessary live bacteria needed for the cycle. Its a useless product. Nothing additional should be needed with water changes other than declorinator. I'm leaning towards the idea that they weren't well to begin with. Even if they were from different LFSes, there are only a few importers and shippers in the US, so the chances are pretty good that they came from the same source. __________________ Tina Puffers: Auriglobus silus x2 Colomesus asellus x1 Tetraodon travancoricus x1 Tetraodon biocellatus x2 Tetraodon nigroviridis x1 Tetraodon baileyi x2 Tetraodon lineatus x1 Tetraodon palembangensis x1 The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated. - Mohandas Gandhi

10-28-2006, 07:05 PM	#14
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	I'm really sure i just figured out what was wrong....my poor fishies..i'm such a dumbass I've be noticing a complete lack of alge anywhere in the tank, and though it was strange. Then it hit me. I went to look, what i though i grabbed at the store was water dechorlonator, but what i got by accident was just water clarifier....my poor fishes been getting a slow death of chorline and heavy metals. Needless to say i added dechorlonator ASAP. God i feel dumb, poor fishies. I'll kep a very close eye on them for a few days, but i'm 99% sure that was the problem. Last edited by The Gallonator; 10-28-2006 at 07:07 PM.

10-29-2006, 01:46 PM	#15
joe kool Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 572	and I'd be willing to bet your bio spiria is toast as well so you'll be starting from scratch ... or pretty close. __________________ A conglomeration of cichlids from all over living happily in my "melting pot" of tanks. Breeding: currently nothing ... I'm sequestered in South Korea, "Osan" to be exact 2 days till I'm back in the states!!!! Florida to be exact, those Floridians have no idea what they're in for!! current Fry: see above tanks: 100, 55, 46 BF, 26 BF, 20L, 5 fry tank 20L planted with CRS is the only thing up (easy for the wife to care for in my stead)

10-29-2006, 09:04 PM	#16
girth vader Hey Now! Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 33 Posts: 616	sounds like your doing a cycle now with fish, u may lose a cpl more before the tank is finishes cycling. It's the nature of the beast when starting out. live and learn __________________ I have a tank!!! A nice one too!

10-30-2006, 09:22 AM	#17
The Gallonator Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 29 Posts: 43	naw, i thought about that, and got a filter from another tank. But thanks for reminding me though

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Cichlid of the Month	Cichlid Man	Cichlids	131	04-06-2008 10:36 AM
photo of the month and a half contest entry	i have crabs	Archived Photos	3	05-30-2006 10:04 AM
Bad Month	Doodles	The Water Hole	25	11-03-2005 11:02 AM
No power for a month	coryjac0b	General Saltwater	7	11-02-2005 01:06 PM
2 month mark...Heere's da algae!	kaybee	Beginner Freshwater	6	10-01-2005 04:14 AM