New 10 Gallon Setup

[djdedeo0]

Hi, I've read the forums for a while but I've decided to post. I have a 40 gallon freshwater and I've just gotten a new 10 gallon. Normally I wouldn't get such a small tank but I was at my aunts house and she has a 10 gallon tank and the set up is excellent.

It is full of nice plant and moss. The water is about 5 inches from top of tank and there is a floating piece of wood mounet to side of tank. there are about 10-15 fish in this tank and 2 small turtles. I know that seems crowded but they are the real small fish. There is rock and slate and all kinds of natural stuff at the bottom. She live in an area with lots of freshwater rivers and springs right near the santa fe river so there is no shortage of nice stuff to add to the tank ( not legal but not all that illegal to take stuff from a river).


I just have a few questions. Is it safe to take the water straight from the river and do fish caught in the wild do well in captivity? Just so you know the river I'm talking about it's the ichetucknee river. Basically it is all natural spring water and crystal clear.

Also, I want to add a little tint to my tank water. Kinda give it a naturl brownish murky color. Is there a type of wood or bark I could find in the wild that i could use to safely dye the water? I just want the tank to look like a natural as possible. I'd prefer a mud/sand bottom but i don't have the proper equipment. I want branches laying on the bottom with pieces of slat. I also want live moss and a few small smooth stones with moss and some natural and preferably native plants to florida.

If I get this stuff from a river do i need to treat it or clean it before putting it in the tank?

http://www.floridastateparks.org/ichetuckneesprings/

[TigerBarb12]

fish from the wild have illnesses and sicknesses, and they like tons of room. They would not like it very well in an aquarium, unless you were to catch a fish that only got up to like 4 inches or so. But they are sick.

[TigerBarb12]

also, whatever you take from the wild needs cleaned, thoroughly. It could have parasites or anything.

[mayastarocker]

I agree with tigerbarb12, wild fish need lots of room and you shouldn't get plants from the wild because they may have parasite eggs on there and could kill your fish. You need a minimum of at least 40 gallons ands can keep growing and maybe shatter the tank if they're too big.

[Pac-Man]

You guys ever heard of native keeping? A lot of active hobbyists engage in it, you catch fish from local streams/ponds and keep them in an aquarium envrionment, and you try to duplicate the conditions they experienced in the wild. Theres nothing wrong with it, provided you have the right equipment for the fish you plan on keeping. I have no idea what fish you plan on catching for your tank, but do some research to make sure a 10 gallon will accomodate its needs. That natural brown tint your looking for can be achieved through filtering your water through peat or putting some driftwood in your tank which releases tanic acid. Just be sure to boil it first. Good luck on your endeavor!

PS- Im not a native keeper myself but I know some on these boards who are! I think OldSalt keeps natives, you could send a PM his way for any further advice you might need. Hope I could help!

[Pac-Man]

Sorry for the double post!

[djdedeo0]

Originally Posted by Pac-Man

You guys ever heard of native keeping? A lot of active hobbyists engage in it, you catch fish from local streams/ponds and keep them in an aquarium envrionment, and you try to duplicate the conditions they experienced in the wild. Theres nothing wrong with it, provided you have the right equipment for the fish you plan on keeping. I have no idea what fish you plan on catching for your tank, but do some research to make sure a 10 gallon will accomodate its needs. That natural brown tint your looking for can be achieved through filtering your water through peat or putting some driftwood in your tank which releases tanic acid. Just be sure to boil it first. Good luck on your endeavor!

PS- Im not a native keeper myself but I know some on these boards who are! I think OldSalt keeps natives, you could send a PM his way for any further advice you might need. Hope I could help!

That's exactly what I'm wanting to do. Replicate the wild. I'm not looking for big fish and if they did start to get big I'd just go release them back into the wild. I'm looking to get a book so i can get the names of the florida fish. But I wanna get the tank loaded up with some plants. I actually went and got about 8 small plants this weekend from the santa fe river. I don't know if you guys are aware but i planted some of those river cabbages or whatever you call it in the tank. The plants that the manatees eat. And I come home today and there is about 6 seeds floating in the tank with a single root coming out of each on. So who knows what will be floating at the top. I scrubed all the plants good in tab water then inspected them for any weird stuff sticking to them.

I hope to go back mon/tues to a different river in the same area to find some kind of moss to cover the bottom of the tank with and get some rocks and other debri from the river. Also I'm wanting to put about 6 more plants in the tank to provide more cover for the fish and a more lush natural environment.

[Ringo]

I have no clue what type of envirment there is down there for in the streams, but I would try not to overplant it. In the wild there is plenty of space, and from what I've read there is 8+ plants in the tank, and your getting more... They could get pretty big.
You outta post some pictures, I'd love to see what it looks like so far.

[JustOneMore20]

I'm not looking for big fish and if they did start to get big I'd just go release them back into the wild.

I wouldn't release a fish back into the wild after its been in captivity. If you catch a fish you plan to keep, ID it and if it gets too large, take it back right then, or prepare to get a larger tank in the future (if its not something that shouldn't live in an aquarium). In alot of states its illegal to release a fish back into the wild after its been kept in captivity. I advise you not to do this whether its legal or not. Try to know what you are looking for when you go to catch something.

Definitely PM TheOldSalt. He keeps alot of native fish. He could probably tell you what to look for in your area and what would stay small enough for your tank.

[fishbguy]

first off, how big are the turtles and do you know what kind they are? Also, do you know what kind of fish are in the tank? I can tell you now that the turtles will eat the fish. they will also need a much larger tank as they get larger.

for the native fish. I don't see why not. at the moment i have a tank with native spieces of fish in it and they are doing awsome. the hardest part about native fish would be gettiong them to eat the foods that you will be feeding them. befor you get the fish do a google on them to find out how big they get when full grown and more importantly, what they eat. when you know what they eat, try to copy their diet. once you have them eating, you can try getting them to eat regular fish food. i have found that the best way to do this is to have other fish in the tank that already eat regular food (ie. one or two small feeder goldfish) and then the wild fish can learn from example. i have a bass in my tank that is about three inches long and he eats fish flakes and freeze dried shrimp(turtle food for the turtle that lives with him) among other things. i have also found that all wild fish love live black worms. they also like guppy fry if they are big enough to eat them.

[Damon]

Keeping native fish and or plants (remember, all fish and plants are native from somewhere ), is not difficult provided you have the right education about said fish and can meet their requirements. They must be quarantined for at least 3 weeks if taken directly from the wild to prevent disease outbreaks.

[djdedeo0]

To answer some of the questions.

* when I said I wanna put alot of plants I forgot to mention what they are. They are all out of the river but when i get the names ill let you know. MOst of them are less then two inches high so they won't crowd. Also only about 5 plants of significant height, 4-6 inches. I'll take pics and maybe some of you can help me identify the plants.

*Turtles. If I was to put two turtle in a ten inch tank they would be small. I can also catch them myself. they would be maybe 3-4 inch turtles. Little painters or snappers. I'm aware that they get large but turtles just like fish have stunted growth in tanks. I'd probably keep them in the tank and when I felt they are getting big I plan on getting a 120 gallon or larger tank in the future. I also don't mind if the turtles eat the fish. It's the nature of the business. But I'd hope that what I fed them would keep them from going on killing sprees.

*I don't plan to get anything that grows over 2 inches or so. Mostly minnows and small fish. Again, I'll take pictures so you all can help me identify those which I'm having trouble with.

*Quarantine: I have set up a new tank and as of yet there is nothing in the tank but the new plants. It's been a week and im gonna wait another week and treat the water some more and make sure everything is sufficient to support life and I also want to make sure my plants survive. I've added plant suppliment and they seem to be doing good so far. I've added some iron mixture. But I don't see the need to quarantine them when they are going in a tank that isn't occupied by anything else.

*I may wait an extra week and let the water evaporate down a few inches so i can see how the tank does with a mounted piece of driftwood for the turtles.

I can assure you it will be a healthy tank. The seedlings that came out of one of the plants are floating on top of the tank now and have started growing roots so that tells me there is at least some hope for a healthy life for the plants and fish.

I'll get pics up soon.

[Pac-Man]

Yes, put up pics please!

[fishbguy]

right now i have one snaapping turtle and three painted turtles. i wiuld suggest getting paainted turtles because the snapping turtles will eventually get too big, even for a 120 gallon. common snappers can get to be at least three feet across the shell and allagator snappers can get to be almost five-six feet acoss the shell. allagator snappin turtles are the largest freshwater turtle in the world. i have never heard about a turtles growth being stunted because their tank is too small. a 120 will be big enough for at least four painted turtles if you have sufficent basking areas. no matter what you feed them they will eat fish. they just can't resist chasing them down and trying to catch them. alot of the times i will find dead feeders in my turtle pond in my backyard. they were cought and klled by the turtles but they didn't eat them. if you feed them enough they won't kill as many fish like you said. i don't know if thy are native to your area or not but rosy red minnows, the brown or wild form, make good fish in a native tank. they are small, cheap, often 12 for a dollar at lfs, fun to watch, and easy to breed. you can also get them at a local bait shop. and what ever you do don't put crawfish in the tank. they will pinch your turtles and not let go. if you do want them in your tank, just take off their pinchers. they tear off easily and grow back so check it often. that if all i can think of for now, good luck.

[girth vader]

not sure if anyone has answered your question as I just quickly perused through the posts and didn't see your answer.
Yes you can buy malasian driftwood or mopani driftwood and both contain tanins which leach into the water giving it a brownish hugh to the water. Sorry if this was already answered already.

[Ringo]

Also bogwood will leek tannins into the water.
Might be easier to find.

[fishboy]

if u want to keep natives in florida, try to find real natives, alot of stuff in florida is released there so it'd be good to obtain literature on Florida's natives and fish in general incase you come across non native fish that u still want

[Clerk]

PLEASE RESEARCH BEFORE YOU TAKE ANYTHING FROM THE WILD!

There are many laws against what you can and cannot take from the wild. Such as in my State, most turtles are illegal to own, much less take from wild, as are the common crayfish that I could find in the stream. If you are unsure about what you are doing call your local department of fish and wildlife.

You may not only be breaking the law, you could be negatively effecting the ecosystem.

[Clerk]

and at least in my state, turtles under 4 inches are illegal to sell, so make sure everything is spiffy.

Most of the people in my state break the law, I have people come into my store all the time that own illegal pets, but I at least try to educate people properly.

[djdedeo0]

I have a good setup now. I'll post pics hopefully within the next few days. I dn't have any turtles at the moment but I plan to in the future to have one or two but no more. I also have my 40 gallon tank. I've had a red terror in their for almost two years and he kills anything that is put in the tank. I think I'm gonna take him to the fish store and start a nice friendly community tank. I feel bad but the guy has probably assinated about 200 dollars in fish. He's about 4 1/2 inches now and he's grown fast in the last few months. I think I'll give one more attempt to add a few friends then I have to take him in. I had a beautiful Salvani for a year when I got the mean guy and he killed him. God I was upset.