cycling problems

[Chris O]

Hello,
I have been having a problem with cycling my 265 gallon. First off i had a little problem ended up with an empty tank. So i decided to go with the fishless cycle method, and started adding ammonia until i got it up to 5.0. The tank was previously cycled so i must have had some beneficial bacteria because i started getting nitrates (but never nitrites). So i kept adding ammonia to bring it up to 5.0 everyday, it would go down a little every day. Now this was happening for about 8 days. Then about 3 days ago the ammonia stopped going down and i haven't had to add anything to it. For the last three days my readings have been: Ammonia 5.0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates around 80. what do i do now? The tank is a 265 US gallons, filters are A medium to large wet/dry not sure the exact size someone gave it to me, A cascade 1500, the lifeguard 3 canister setup (the standard 9 inch size), and the largest whisper hang on back filter there is. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Damon]

Nitrates could be coming from your tapwater (or well water). You don't need to add so much ammonia either. You may be killing off the bacteria you have. A reading of 2 is more than enough ammonia to cycle a tank.

[Chris O]

thanks, 0 Nitrates out of the tap. I'll bring it down to 2.0 but should i bring it back up to 2 as they go back down?

[Damon]

Keep bringing it up to 2 until when you test it reads 0. If nitrites read 0 also, then you can add fish.

[Chris O]

i did a water change and brought my ammonia down to 2, now i have been stuck at 2 for about a week and a half with 0 nitrites. any ideas what i should do now?

[TheOldSalt]

Simpte already beat me to it, but as he mentioned, your initial ammonia level was way too high. In fact, it might have damaged your bacteria to the point they can't function.

My suggestion, now that your ammonia is down to a manageable level, is to add more bacteria.
What brand did you use, by the way?
"Stability" and "Bio-Spira" are the only two brands currently on the market which actually work.

When you say you had a little problem and wound up with an empty tank, what do you mean? Did you have a disease prblem? Did you use any medicine to combat it, which may also have contributed to your inactive bacteria?

By the way, it's entirely possible that you don't have any problems at all with your bacteria. Instead, things may well be working very, very well indeed, and the reason you find no nitrite is that it's getting converted to nitrate as fast as it's being made. Come to think of it, this is the most likely situation.
Stop adding ammonia. If it drops to zero while your nitrate goes up, then your tank is fine and fully cycled. Do a water change to reduce the nitrate and add fish.

[Chris O]

i didn't add any bacteria, i had a 120 set up and cycled with all my filters on it for 6 months, moved all my fish and filters over to my 265. I had three oscars and two of them paired up and tried to kill the other one, so i got rid of two of them. Then i had a power outage one day and a few days later i had ammonia. During that time my last fish took a jump out of the tank and died now i am stuck with an empty tank with ammonia i cant get rid of.

[shev]

the bacteria is everywhere, but kicks in when ammonia is present. but seeding can really really speed up the cycling process, increasing the temp speeds up chemical reactions, until a certain point. there should be enough bacteria in the filter and substrate from the last time your tank had fish in it, which seeded. the more bacteria there is the faster it grows, "exponentially". so it may be already cycled as theoldsalt said

[Chris O]

but if it was allready cycled shouldn't the ammonia be dropping daily?

[TheOldSalt]

Not if you keep adding it. Quit adding it.

IF
you've already stopped adding it and didn't tell us that part, then your nitrite-to-nitrate bacteria is working much faster than your ammonia-to-nitrite bacteria.

OR:

You are experiencing reduction, which is turning nitrite back into ammonia. This actually happens all the time, but usually only to a very small degree. The usual cause is clogged filter media or substrate. The power outage which produced all the ammonia may have done serious harm to your nitrifying bacteria while giving the reducing bacteria a competitive edge.

[Chris O]

in the first post i said i stopped adding it and was stuck at 5.0 ammonia. then i did a water change and brought it down to 2, now i am stuck at 2 and it hasnt gone down in over a week and a half, that is why i was asking what i should do now. i did buy some biomax i am going to add it to my filter today

[Damon]

The next question is what type of ammonia are you adding?

[TheOldSalt]

Biomax, Cycle, FritzZyme, StressZyme... they're all junk. I already told you the only two brands that actually work. Use one of those if you want results.

Simpte's question is a good one. Just what DID you use as an ammonia source?

I started to wonder if you had enough filtration on the tank, but after a review I can see that you do, so adding more won't help.

So, the ammonia was dropping and dropping so you kept adding and adding, but then it got too high before you stopped adding, and it kept dropping for a little while but then stopped.
I still say you probably added too much one day and either killed or mutated the bacteria.

In your case, if it were me, I would make sure the various filter media was not clogged and that water was flowing through it instead of around it. Then I'd add some Stability of BioSpira. After a week I'd change half the water. yes, half, and I do realize how big a tank it is. That's really all there is to do at this point except either wait and wait and wait in the hope it eventually corrects itself or just start all over again.
However, if you have mutated bacteria, then they'll just take over the filter media and limit the number and effectiveness of useful ones. To be extra sure I would change all the media in one filter and seed it heavily with good bacteria. A few weeks later I'd do another filter, and later on the third one. That should fix everything.

In the meantime, I'd go ahead and add some fish after that first big waterchange.

[Chris O]

just pure ammonia from shoprite(supermarket), no perfume or additives. The biomax i was refering to isn't a bacteria ,its a ceramic ring filter media to support the bacteria. i cant get biospira here in NJ and was told for as much as i need its taking a pretty big chance by ordering it online because the bacteria dies off if its not kept cold. is this true? or should i just go for it?

[TheOldSalt]

As cold as it is up there right now, there shouldn't be a problem. Stability is less touchy than Bio-Spira, and I think cheaper, too, so go with that if you're worried. Shut the filters off, one at a time, and pour it into them to soak the media for a half hour before restarting.
Repeat the next day, and then follow the directions for the next week.


Whoops. The Bio-Max I was thinking about was the stuff in the little red bottle.

Pure ammonia isn't what you're supposed to use. Ammonium chloride is the correct stuff. Too late now, of course, but remember it for next time. Pure ammonia is too toxic. Before you add any bacteria, change some water to get rid of some of it so the bacteria will be able to function better.

Although the fishless cycle method is very popular among the members of this board, I personally don't have much use for it except in certain situations. Oh, well, to each his own.

Good luck with everything!

[Chris O]

Got some biospira on the way, still the same ammonia (2.0)