High Nitrate and Nitrite Levels

[lgldsr]

I have a 10gal Freshwater Tank approximately one month old which is exhibiting high levels of both Nitrates and Nitrites. I understand that the former is not necessarily detrimental to the health of the Fish, but the latter is.

This is a simple setup with four Goldfish, a Marineland C160 Filter, heater, a few sandstones, etc. The setup is in a room that receives a large amount of light, which is no doubt contributing to the Algae problem mentioned below.

Is there any way I can get these levels down?

Also, I have now run into an Algae problem. What is the best way to deal with this? I would assume this will include a substantial tank change and to that end I assume the contents of the filter should likewise be drained?

Thanks!

[jones57742]

lgl:

IMHO the probable cause of the three problems is overfeeding.
(Please note that algae cannot survive without nutrients;
that the high concentration of nitrates is due to the bacteriological digestion of the nitrites [unless your tap water is high in nitrates] and
that the high concentration of nitrites is due to the bacteriological digestion of ammonia [you did not report an observable concentration of ammonia but "it just has to be there or has been there"].


IMHO and if it were my tank & fishies:

1) commence 10% daily WC's and continue these 10% WC's for 10 days;
2) in the one gallon of tank water from the first WC thoroughly rinse your mechanical and biological filtration media;
3) do not feed for two days;
4) subsequent to the two days feed 1/2 of what you have been feeding for five days
5) in the one gallon of tank water from the last 10% WC thoroughly rinse your mechanical and biological filtration media;
6) post your water parameters and algae growth or hopefully decline after the seven day period.

Also please refer to
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-...xas-style.html

TR

[FishHead]

I would also get a bubble and air pump. that will help lower down the levels.

[JustOneMore20]

Another reason for the high nitrates is that the tank is overstocked. I wouldn't even keep one Goldfish in a 10g. They are messy fish who produce alot of waste. They will also eventually outgrow a 10g. For all 4 of those, you should have around a 50 gallon tank with atleast twice the filtration.

Doing the daily water changes will take care of the problem now, but will not solve it IMO. I'd definitely start them to lower the nitrItes. Doing 50% water changes weekly after that and feeding once a day or once every other day will help.

You should really consider upgrading the setup though.

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by FishHead

I would also get a bubble and air pump. that will help lower down the levels.

Thanks! I am aerating this to death! I should have mentioned that. And if I recall from HS Chemistry (egads, LONG ago) small bubbles are better than larger ones....

Lyman

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Another reason for the high nitrates is that the tank is overstocked. I wouldn't even keep one Goldfish in a 10g. They are messy fish who produce alot of waste. They will also eventually outgrow a 10g. For all 4 of those, you should have around a 50 gallon tank with atleast twice the filtration.

Doing the daily water changes will take care of the problem now, but will not solve it IMO. I'd definitely start them to lower the nitrItes. Doing 50% water changes weekly after that and feeding once a day or once every other day will help.

You should really consider upgrading the setup though.

Well, that was the next step I was considering....at one time I had a 150 gal Saltwater which I loved, but going much larger at this point isn't in the budget. Agreed on the fish, they do produce allot of waste.

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by jones57742

lgl:

IMHO the probable cause of the three problems is overfeeding.
(Please note that algae cannot survive without nutrients;
that the high concentration of nitrates is due to the bacteriological digestion of the nitrites [unless your tap water is high in nitrates] and
that the high concentration of nitrites is due to the bacteriological digestion of ammonia [you did not report an observable concentration of ammonia but "it just has to be there or has been there"].


IMHO and if it were my tank & fishies:

1) commence 10% daily WC's and continue these 10% WC's for 10 days;
2) in the one gallon of tank water from the first WC thoroughly rinse your mechanical and biological filtration media;
3) do not feed for two days;
4) subsequent to the two days feed 1/2 of what you have been feeding for five days
5) in the one gallon of tank water from the last 10% WC thoroughly rinse your mechanical and biological filtration media;
6) post your water parameters and algae growth or hopefully decline after the seven day period.

Also please refer to
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-...xas-style.html

TR

Tr, thank you very much for the guidance. I'll give that a shot, and in the meantime will be looking to go to a larger setup down the road.

My Grandson is really attached to one of the Goldfish. What other species could I get that would co-exist with same? The other Goldfish I'd just return to the Store.

Thanks,

Lyman

[emc7]

Jones is right on. I suggest being even more aggressive with the water changes. Nitrite is very toxic. You need to get the level well down into the "safe" range, however much water it takes to do that. It might take 80% water changes.

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by emc7

Jones is right on. I suggest being even more aggressive with the water changes. Nitrite is very toxic. You need to get the level well down into the "safe" range, however much water it takes to do that. It might take 80% water changes.

A 10% change every day for ten days? Or perhaps a 30% change?

Thanks,

Lyman

[emc7]

Whatever it takes. If your nitrite is double the safe level, change half the water. After you change water, test again, if the level is still high, change water again. Goldfish can be very tolerant, but they don't have to be. If you leave your fish in high nitrite for too long, you may lose the fish the child is attached to.

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by emc7

Whatever it takes. If your nitrate is double the safe level, change half the water. After you change water, test again, if the level is still high, change water again. Goldfish can be very tolerant, but they don't have to be. If you leave your fish in high nitrite for too long, you may lose the fish the child is attached to.

Okay, thanks. I'll do that and monitor it.

Many thanks again,

Lyman

[jones57742]

lgl:

enc has much more experience than I do "so please keep that in mind here".

I believe that what we are both trying to address here is

1) very high nitrite concentrations (and more importantly the very high ammonia concentrations associated therewith) are lethal over a very short period, typically extending from a few hours to a few days and
2) high nitrite concentrations (and once again more importantly high ammonia concentrations associated therewith) are toxic to fish: ie. the fish will not "be happy fish" and their lifespan will be significantly reduced.

Examples:
How long would you survive breathing 10% air and 90% cigarate smoke (ie. this is an analogy to fish in a tank with very high nitrite and ammonia concetrations ).
Do you believe that being in a bar room which is 50% cigarete smoke and 50% air for 10 days would affect your life expetancy (ie. this is an analogy to fish in a tank with high nitrite and ammonia concetrations ).

My concern with respect to the 80% WC is the adverse effect to the biological filtration media.

The following are IMHO and are based on emc's posts (emc: I "never figured" that significantly high nitrite concentrations would exist):

If your nitrite concentration is 1.0 mg/l or greater then forget the serious adverse effect to the biological filtration media and perform an 80% WC;

If your nitrite concentration is between 0.15 and 1.00 mg/l then forget the adverse affect (which will be minimal) to the biological filtration media and perform a 30% WC immediately and then start the protocol as set forth in my previous post and

If your nitrite concentration is below 0.15 mg/l then proceed in accordance with my previous post.

I have absolutely no experience with goldfish and, hence, for sure no experience comingling goldfish and tropical fish. I will research this topic today or this weekend and post
BUT
Based on your signature the cost of a 50G tank, an HOB filter, a heater/thermostat, and a thermometer is "nothing" compare to your grandson enjoying his goldfish
ie. please humor me, hustle one up and start cycling.

TR

BTW:
One of these days it will be your turn to expend the time necessary to prepare the posts which emc and I have based on our experience.

[emc7]

oops I said nitrate once when I meant nitrite. Nitrite is much worse than nitrate. I read post after post of people who get 0 ammonia, think their tank is cycled, go add fish and suddenly have floaters. You must test for nitrite up until 10 weeks in a new tank until you see it drop to 0. You can have 0 ammonia and still have killing nitrite levels. If you are cycling with bio-spira or stability or even scrum from an established tank's filter, when you start having reading nitrite, add another dose.

[Fishfirst]

Goldfish should only be kept with other goldfish really... but if you must find a fish to go with them, a hillstream loach would be fine at the temperature they require. Small fish should not be kept with goldfish because of the goldfish being opertunistic predators. I would also recomend not getting any more fish until you upgrade.

AND

high nitrite levels are a sign that your cycle is not over with. I would recomend doing several water changes around 25% every day until the problem has gone down to safe levels and add aquarium salt to detoxify the nitrite a bit. Over feeding is probably a factor, but probably not the cause. More than likely its not that you overwhelmed established bacterial colonies with large amounts of wasted food, but rather just didn't wait for these bacterial colonies to establish themselves in the first place.

The fix to this is just patients and reduced feeding along with the mentioned water changes and the added salt. Goldfish have a high tolerance to salt, so you will have no problems acclimating them to the recommended dosage on the box.

Remove the salt once your nitrite readings are back to normal. This can be done by doing a 30% water change/week for 4 weeks.

[lgldsr]

First of all, thank you very much to everyone who has taken the trouble to go to such lengths to assist me with this. It is greatly appreciated to say the least; many thanks!

Switching gears...I am also dealing with an Algae problem. This was of my own doing for placing this tank in a room that takes in broad daylight all day long. Having said that, I am going to move the tank but it the Algae now a permanent part of filtration material, stones, plants, et al? What's the best way to go about this? Scrubbing the tank is only a bandaid patch....

Thanks,

Lyman

[emc7]

Let the algae be until the nitrite comes down. Then you can remove some mechanically (gravel washing, scraping, running filter media under tap). While the tank is 'still cycling' you don't want to take out any of your good bacteria. Algae feeds on ammonia, nitrite, nitrate so it is taking out stuff that might other wise be killing your fish. Once you have the nutrients under control, the growth rate of the algae will slow down. What you must not do is kill the algae and leave it in you tank rotting. Dead algae becomes ammonia, it's like way overfeeding your fish. Scrape enough glass so that you see the fish and siphon out what you scrape off. Other than that wait until your other problems are under control before taking any action. This exception is if the filter media gets so clogged it restricts flow, in that case scrub the algae off the media with a brush in waste water.

[jones57742]

lgl:

emc is right on here.

but it (is [sp.]) the Algae now a permanent part of filtration material, stones, plants, et al?

No!
Please refer to:
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-...xas-style.html

TR

[lgldsr]

Originally Posted by jones57742

lgl:

emc is right on here.

but it (is [sp.]) the Algae now a permanent part of filtration material, stones, plants, et al?

No!
Please refer to:
http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-...xas-style.html

TR

Thanks for the information. I'll continue with the water changes and leave the Algae alone for now.

I take it that at the end of ten days - or unitl the Nitrate levels drop - I can then address the Algae issue, but in what manner? Just a cleaning of tank, stones, etc?

Thanks again,

Lyman

[jones57742]

Originally Posted by lgldsr

but in what manner? Just a cleaning of tank, stones, etc?

Please refer to posts 1, 2 and 3 by Emc and I in the following thread.

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-...xas-style.html

TR

[Fishfirst]

You want your nitrIte levels to lower... nitrAte levels are more than likely going to go down with the water changes. Also, I would address some of the problem with the algae right now. If you can block the light from the windows do it.