what is the difference between endlers and guppies?

guppybreeder! · 10-08-2007, 03:21 PM

ok so how do you tell the difference between an endler and a guppy? pics would be great! also are balloon mollys basicly the same as mollys just shorter and fatter?

emc7 · 10-08-2007, 03:27 PM

endlers were thought to be a separate species in the same genus as guppies, but now they are thought to be the same species, just strains descended from a specific collection location. They look a lot like pictures of "wild type" guppies in books. http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/endlerslivebearer/

TigerBarb12 · 10-08-2007, 04:20 PM

Is there really any difference?

neilfishguy · 10-08-2007, 04:23 PM

I havent read anything saying they are the same species. but it could be. endlers are smaller and much diff. color

**Damon** · 10-08-2007, 04:24 PM

Wild guppies were/are small like endlers also. What you see in the fish stores is a result of selective and cross breeding for color and size to make them more appealing to consumers.

neilfishguy · 10-08-2007, 04:26 PM

yeah i know thye could be the same species im not a biologist or anything so i cant comment on the sp. but endlers are deff. diff then most gupps

**TheOldSalt** · 10-08-2007, 05:46 PM

Well, I am a biologist, and I can tell you that there are a whole bunch of localized tribes of guppies out there besides Endler's, each with their own characteristic traits. Endler's usually have an orange zigzag mark on their flanks, but other tribes have bright green dots, or yellow tiger stripes, or black stripes, or whatever. They're all just guppies which have been isolated and wound up looking alike within their local populations. These tribes can all interbreed with each other just fine, just as they can interbreed with ordinary guppies. many of these crosses result in some pretty spectacular fish.

The biggest differences are size and intensity/patterning of color. Behaviors also differ a bit, as the habitats each tribe comes from has an effect on how the fish tend to live. It sometimes even makes it tricky to cross them since their courtship styles are different, but they find a way.

neilfishguy · 10-08-2007, 08:05 PM

cool thanks for telling us that

guppybreeder! · 10-12-2007, 04:12 PM

that is so cool! i never new that! thanks!

**TheOldSalt** · 10-13-2007, 12:53 PM

It gets even cooler. The color patterns of each tribe seem to also be influenced by the local environment. A place with lots of yellow leaf litter and dark water, for example, has fish of one color and behavior while another place with clear water and lots of wide-open area produce fish of different traits, a do places with lush greenery and plenty of hiding places.
Genetically, though, while they all look and act different, they're all just guppies. Crossing them together restores lost genes from the pool, resulting in ordinary wild guppies in a few generations. Therefore, it's very important to avoid doing that.

Endler's and their ilk are probably going to be the next big thing in fishkeeping. Guppies have always been popular, but Endler's provide a hole new palette of superintense colors to play with, which should ensure their surging popularity for decades to come, especially once new domesticated forms of them are created.

neilfishguy · 10-13-2007, 09:50 PM

ok then if you cross different tribes of endelrs will they become wild type guppys?

guppybreeder! · 10-14-2007, 09:37 AM

that is so cool! the pet store i go to doesn't have endlers. only guppys. i think i might try to find somewere that sells the! do you think lie petsmart or petco would?

**TheOldSalt** · 10-15-2007, 10:42 PM

Neil- yep. Sometimes they're stable for a good while, but sometimes not.

G.B.- no chance. Someday maybe, but not yet. I take that back. The occasional store might get some in against company policy against buying fish from local breeders, but otherwise, don't hold your breath.

Aquaman_95 · 10-16-2007, 02:58 PM

Yes I agree...guppies and endlers are a separate species.

guppybreeder! · 10-16-2007, 06:46 PM

ok. i thought i saw what may have been a few endlers mixed up in the common guppys at my local pet store. they probably don't even realize it.

neilfishguy · 10-17-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman_95

Yes I agree...guppies and endlers are a separate species.

agree with who? LOL no one has said that they are diff species...

10-08-2007, 03:21 PM	#1
guppybreeder! guppy crazy!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Age: 17 Posts: 128	what is the difference between endlers and guppies? ok so how do you tell the difference between an endler and a guppy? pics would be great! also are balloon mollys basicly the same as mollys just shorter and fatter? __________________ My tanks! 5 gallon- 6 pregnant guppys 5 gallon(fry tank)- some guppy fry 10 gallon- female guppys 10 gallon- male guppys

10-08-2007, 04:20 PM	#3
TigerBarb12 Tiger Barb Alpha Male Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milford, OH Age: 16 Posts: 541	Is there really any difference? __________________ My Tank 38 Gallon: Tiger Barb x5 Serpae Tetra x6 Blue Gourami x1 Bloodfin Tetra x2 Gold Barb x1 10 Gallon: Gold Gourami x1 10 Gallon: 5 Shiners (Wild)

10-08-2007, 04:24 PM	#5
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982	Wild guppies were/are small like endlers also. What you see in the fish stores is a result of selective and cross breeding for color and size to make them more appealing to consumers. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

10-12-2007, 04:12 PM	#9
guppybreeder! guppy crazy!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Age: 17 Posts: 128	that is so cool! i never new that! thanks! __________________ My tanks! 5 gallon- 6 pregnant guppys 5 gallon(fry tank)- some guppy fry 10 gallon- female guppys 10 gallon- male guppys

10-14-2007, 09:37 AM	#12
guppybreeder! guppy crazy!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Age: 17 Posts: 128	that is so cool! the pet store i go to doesn't have endlers. only guppys. i think i might try to find somewere that sells the! do you think lie petsmart or petco would? __________________ My tanks! 5 gallon- 6 pregnant guppys 5 gallon(fry tank)- some guppy fry 10 gallon- female guppys 10 gallon- male guppys

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10-08-2007, 03:27 PM	#2
emc7 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Johns Creek, GA Posts: 3,292	endlers were thought to be a separate species in the same genus as guppies, but now they are thought to be the same species, just strains descended from a specific collection location. They look a lot like pictures of "wild type" guppies in books. http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/endlerslivebearer/

10-08-2007, 04:23 PM	#4
neilfishguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 16 Posts: 185	I havent read anything saying they are the same species. but it could be. endlers are smaller and much diff. color

10-08-2007, 04:26 PM	#6
neilfishguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 16 Posts: 185	yeah i know thye could be the same species im not a biologist or anything so i cant comment on the sp. but endlers are deff. diff then most gupps

10-08-2007, 05:46 PM	#7
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,360	Well, I am a biologist, and I can tell you that there are a whole bunch of localized tribes of guppies out there besides Endler's, each with their own characteristic traits. Endler's usually have an orange zigzag mark on their flanks, but other tribes have bright green dots, or yellow tiger stripes, or black stripes, or whatever. They're all just guppies which have been isolated and wound up looking alike within their local populations. These tribes can all interbreed with each other just fine, just as they can interbreed with ordinary guppies. many of these crosses result in some pretty spectacular fish. The biggest differences are size and intensity/patterning of color. Behaviors also differ a bit, as the habitats each tribe comes from has an effect on how the fish tend to live. It sometimes even makes it tricky to cross them since their courtship styles are different, but they find a way.

10-08-2007, 08:05 PM	#8
neilfishguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 16 Posts: 185	cool thanks for telling us that

10-13-2007, 12:53 PM	#10
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,360	It gets even cooler. The color patterns of each tribe seem to also be influenced by the local environment. A place with lots of yellow leaf litter and dark water, for example, has fish of one color and behavior while another place with clear water and lots of wide-open area produce fish of different traits, a do places with lush greenery and plenty of hiding places. Genetically, though, while they all look and act different, they're all just guppies. Crossing them together restores lost genes from the pool, resulting in ordinary wild guppies in a few generations. Therefore, it's very important to avoid doing that. Endler's and their ilk are probably going to be the next big thing in fishkeeping. Guppies have always been popular, but Endler's provide a hole new palette of superintense colors to play with, which should ensure their surging popularity for decades to come, especially once new domesticated forms of them are created.

10-13-2007, 09:50 PM	#11
neilfishguy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 16 Posts: 185	ok then if you cross different tribes of endelrs will they become wild type guppys?

10-15-2007, 10:42 PM	#13
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,360	Neil- yep. Sometimes they're stable for a good while, but sometimes not. G.B.- no chance. Someday maybe, but not yet. I take that back. The occasional store might get some in against company policy against buying fish from local breeders, but otherwise, don't hold your breath.

10-16-2007, 02:58 PM	#14
Aquaman_95 I like Cereal! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Georgia the State Age: 14 Posts: 15	Yes I agree...guppies and endlers are a separate species.

10-16-2007, 06:46 PM	#15
guppybreeder! guppy crazy!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Minnesota Age: 17 Posts: 128	ok. i thought i saw what may have been a few endlers mixed up in the common guppys at my local pet store. they probably don't even realize it. __________________ My tanks! 5 gallon- 6 pregnant guppys 5 gallon(fry tank)- some guppy fry 10 gallon- female guppys 10 gallon- male guppys

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