learning my lesson about crowding, + bottom feeder question.

[trashion]

so, against the advice of several other aquarists, i went ahead and added 4 cardinal tetras to the tank in my sig. things seemed okay, but i've been watching the tank inhabitants carefully over the past day and a half, and my decision is to return them to the store.

here's my story:

i set up the 15 gallon tank last week. i skipped the cycle by squeezing out and letting the old filter media sit in the water, moving all decor over, putting ALL of the old water from the 10 gallon into it, and using eco-complete [bacteria-seeded] things seemed to work out wonderfully, i've been keeping an eye on all the levels, and they all remained normal.

i put in my 5 skirts, and 2 days later, 3 otocincluses.

previously to adding the cardinals, my 5 skirt tetras had been very peaceful with each other. they'd follow each other around the tank in a small school, weaving in and out of the plants. they did not pester the otos [who enjoyed the slice of zucchini i provided.] the balance of the tank was very peaceful.

however, a few days later, i've noticed the skirts schooling less and less. now they've scattered all over the tank, and whenever they get close to each other, they start darting at each other and nipping fins. my theory is that the skirts feel their territory is threatened by the cardinals, as they are both mid-level fish. and there just isn't enough room for 2 different schools of mid-level fish in a 15 gallon.

anyone had experience with this? i'm already quite ready to return the cardinals to the store. want to share stories?

side questions: could i add some julii cories to the bottom? or are there any loaches that stay small enough for a 15 gallon?

[mousey]

my black skirts only school if they feel threatened.
otherwise they have the tank divided into territories. They stay in their own areas unless threatened.
Other inhabitants are 1 danio 1 platy, 2 SAE's.

[JustOneMore20]

Skirt tetras tend to be a little nippy/aggressive at times. Personally I wouldn't keep them in a 15g because they get kinda big for a tetra. I'd just have the Cardinals and then maybe some shrimp for the bottom. I understand that since you've had the Skirt tetras awhile that you may not be able to return them/trade them in. If you could though, I'd suggest going that route.

I don't suggest cories for that size tank and there aren't any loaches I'd suggest either.

[neilfishguy]

hasbrosus or pygmeus would be fine in a 15g

[Obsidian]

Also I have noticed that my shoaling fish only seem to shoal in the tank for the first several days and then do it less unless something is going on. Anytime I add a new inhabitant they will shoal up. At feeding time while i am getting ready to feed they will shoal up, but then disperse when the food is actually in the tank. It is very possible that they were shoaling those first days while they were in a strange place and felt more insecure. Once secure they stopped that and felt more able to stake out territory. If you give it another week you may see it change yet again to a more calm community.

[neilfishguy]

fish only school if they need to. the reason fish school is because it causes less to get eaten so if they feel secure they may not schoool

[Fishfirst]

a few kuhli loaches would also be fine in a 15 gal

[Dr_House]

I agree with what has been said above. While there are some fish that tend to school more regardless of the threat level, almost any fish will stop schooling when they feel secure. From what I've been told, Pencilfish tend to swim in very tight schools even when there is no preasant threat, but that is fairly unusual.

[fishdude32]

i have a question will any of my fish 1swordtail,1guppy,1neon tetra,3zebra danios and 1 otto catfish eat ghost shrimp because i was thinking of getting one

[JustOneMore20]

Please make a new thread and you'll get more answers.

[TheOldSalt]

But no, they probably won't. The swordtail might, but it's doubtful.

Rummy-nose tetras are tight schoolers, and make a great display. However, as already mentioned, many schools will break up if the fish feel no need for them. Adding the cardinals proably had one of two effects:
1- everbody just gave up in the crowded chaos
2- the "dither" effect of the cardinals made the skirts feel more secure.
3- both

Cardinals are often used as "dither fish. " That means they are put into tanks with very nervous fish in an effort to make the nervous fish feel more secure. Discus fish, for example, are very often kept with cardinals, partly because cardinals can withstand the conditions that discus prefer, and partly because when the discus see the cardinals swimming around like nothing is wrong, they assume that nothing is wrong. ( They also make convenient tastee-snax when the owner forgets to feed them! LOL )

[jones57742]

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Please make a new thread and you'll get more answers.

Ditto that one.

trashion generated this thread and you, fishdude32, have posted a question in it.

I believe that TOS was responding to your question based upon, or at least partially based upon, the tank's populations as set forth in the original post.

TR