have the flu, safe to work in tank?

[trashion]

So I recently came down with a bad bout of the flu. No more fever, but I'm still achy and coughing, etc. However, my tank is past due for a pruning and water change.

Maybe I'm just being too cautious, but I do remember hearing once, something about some fish being affected by strep throat or something like that.

[emc7]

Hmm... I might may the fish sick. Good excuse. I had heard of people getting exotic tropical diseases from fish tanks (mostly on TV shows) , not vice versa. Bird flu, fish flu?

[CarterNichols]

wash your hands, put a shirt over your mouth.

simple as that.

[Chrispy]

umm they are a different species of organism so i would doubt you would have a problem. honestly the only thing i would do is if you feel the urge to sneeze or caugh just turn away from the tank and do it in your sleeve. also if you fish to get sick, do some research because you may of just had a breakthrough in science. their bodies are quite different then ours and their immune system works different. so i am sure there is no chance of hurting the fish. Think of being sick and having your dog or cat around. they are fine. and they are closer to us then fish. i think the only way we can infect fish is with a blood born illness. they don't breath air directly like us so an air born pathogen is out. also you don't actually touch the fish enough to pass something on that way. SO, in retrospect. the odds of you having a strain that could infect fish is sooooo small and then on top of that the odds that the strain could be passed to them is even smaller. so just caugh in your sleeve and you should be fine.

[GoodMike]

im gonna agree with chrispy here. there is no evidence of fish catching any sickness (cold, flu, etc) from people.... take that kind of stuff with a grain of salt

[darkfalz]

Your cold/flu germs can only affect primates.

Are your fish primates?

[Christine]

I've heard it said that discus can be susceptible to colds.... I've never kept them myself so umm yea take that with a grain of salt *laugh*

[TheOldSalt]

No evidence? No problem? Look up the word "zoonose" if you still think that fish & humans can't share diseases. We share plenty. Birds, herps, and even bees can infect us & vice-versa. Primates only... HA! That's a laugh! ( or would be if it weren't so serious )

As for the original question, strongly laterally compressed fishes, mostly cichlids like discus & angels and compressiceps and the like, can and do indeed catch the flu. ( I can't think of any others which do at the moment. ) For us, the flu is a major annoyance. For fish, it's much worse. On the plus side, any fish which survives the flu will be immune for the rest of it's life.
If you are worried about this, then do what you should have already done and get yourself a pair of long rubber gloves for working in the tank. At the very least you should have a good scrub & rinse. ( before AND after tank work )

[trashion]

Thank you, TOS. I thought I'd heard that it could be dangerous to the fish.

[GoodMike]

i guess we need to start giving our fish the flu shot...

Trashion, go do your waterchanges as normal, i will pay your fishes hospital bills, and replace them if they all catch the flu and die

[Barbie]

The fact that there are a few (out of MILLIONS of strains) of diseases that can be shared between fish and humans definitely doesn't mean that they all will. That notion is just ridiculous, IMO. There are a few laterally compressed fish like angels and discus that get their own version of a "plague" that is believed to be viral. NOWHERE is it mentioned in data about those issues that the fish were originally infected by a human! This is definitely one to be chalked up as an urban myth. Do your water changes. Your fish will thank you .

And TOS, please, I'd love to see documentation, not just speculation on this subject. You know, from people with actual microscopes, not just people comfortable with making up excuses for why their fish died as they go!

Barbie

[TheOldSalt]

Nah, Mike; Apparently it doesn't work! LOL

Before anyone asks, no, I have no idea why only fishes like that are affected while almost all others aren't. I'm not sure that anyone has yet figured out that one.
Anyway, if you have these fish, then take extra precautions. If you don't, then don't worry about it.

Barbie, where have you been? I know you've definitely been around long enough to remember the events of 1986 and the subsequent aftermath. Well, quite a number of microscope-wielding supergeeks were on the case and coming up with nothing for quite a long time. One reason for that was likely that they had a mindset very much like yours, and never even considered such a possibility.
However, when one Discus breeder was enjoying some success at maintaining a healthy hatchery, he went to visit another that wasn't having such luck. Paranoid about cross contamination, he made sure to avoid contact with any surface or water or equipment, and he even went so far as to wrap his shoes in plastic baggies that he removed after exiting the fish house. After that, he stayed away from his own place for a few days just to make sure. His fish remained okay, but he himself did not.
By the time he once again got back to his own fishhouse, he had he flu. He got it from the wife of the other breeder, presumably, since he had had pretty much no other human contact during that week, and she was sick, having caught it from her hubby, who had just gotten over his own case. Still, he went to work so that his employees could have a day off, and he wasn't feeling too terrible.
Two days later, almost all of his once prized discus had turned black. Most didn't make it.
He later recounted this story to investigators from the AG dept who were alerted to the problem after the fishfarmer tried to make a claim on his insurance for the loss. They in turn added that bit of info to their growing pile, and then added their pile to the bigger global pile.
Eventually somebody noticed a pattern. Many of these guys ( angel & discus breeders ) had the flu at the time their fish got sick. Many more had traded fish with those who had been sick.
A virus had already been suspected, and a few suspects identified, but none of them seemed to be the real culprit. Could it be that one peculiar strain of the flu was actually responsible for the worldwide wipeout of angels and discus? The very idea was insane!
Still, it was an insane situation, and worth investigating just to rule it out, at least.

For a few years we heard nothing. It was a mystery unsolved. The fish that survived were immune, thankfully, and stocks were building up again, although the price of these once-cheap fish was forever elevated. Finally, though, the word came down: it was definitely a virus, and one which gave humans flu-like symptoms, very possibly being a strain of flu itself. ( another report said it was a flu strain, but in doubt, I'll say it probably wasn't, as I'll explain later )The story I just told you circulated around with the news, since it was considered one of the things which led to the discovery. I'm not really surprised that you haven't heard much about this, actually, since finding info on Angel-AIDS itself is pretty hard to do. The internet didn't catch on until several years afterward, after all. You'd think that such a huge event would have been bigger news, but fish problems don't seem to grab the headlines.
Urban myth?
Okay, I suppose it's possible. I'll also admit that saying that "the flu" is very irresponsible, considering the impreciseness of it. Documentation? At best I could only tell you where I read it several years ago, ( trade publications, mainly ) and I can't even guess if they had it right. The debate still rages to this day, of course.

There are a great many strains of "flu" in this world, with more evolving each year. Most of them come from not humans, but animals. They affect us just the same. Many of these "flus" aren't even actually caused by real influenzas, but that's little consolation when you're just as sick anyway.
So, which got sick first, then? Did humans originally give the disease to fish, or did we catch it from them? I seriously doubt we'll ever know. We're definitely capable of spreading it, though, so any "flu" a person has should be considered unsafe for these fishes even if the chances are low that it's a zoonotic strain.
ALSO, while still recovering from, or still fighting, the flu, a person may be more susceptible to various zoonotic diseases that the fish may already have, possibly leading to an infection that would otherwise be easily deflected.

All in all, the question was whether it was safe to work in a tank when infected with the "flu." The answer, no matter how you care argue to defend your hometown friend Mike, is no. Is it a big risk? Not in the least. Is it safe to ignore completely? No

[GoodMike]

TOS, the problem is...again there is no evidence to substantiate these claims.... but instead a lot of "might's", "could be's", "maybe", "may have"...and a whole lot of coincidences that people are linking to something that may..or may not be truth. if there is indeed truth to any of this, why hasn't any of our dedicated fish nuts with degrees in biology, microbiology, virology, etc (yes i know a few of them), done anything to substantiate? We know, generally, what the flu virus(s) look like in humans, why don't we have any information of what that same virus(s) look like in fish? there is no evidence, just a lot of guesses, explanations for the unexplained (we as humans must always try to explain what happens, whether our explanations are correct or way off base, we have to do it).

Have you had a fish that definitively caught the flu from you?

No one here is saying that the fish of back then didnt get sick. The problem is that the only documentation presented is in the form of an opinion. Yes there was an epidemic. Im not denying that, and Barbie did not either. The cause of that epidemic is unkown, and there is Insufficient evidence (or no evidence) that it was caused by a human flu. Isn't it possible that something else was going on at the same time as all these deaths? Hell, if fish died because of the flu (given to them by people), i would have lost my discus a long time ago. The flu never kept me from doing my fish work as usual. There is a missing link somewhere to this whole fish die off... and for some reason, with out the proper evidence to back any of it up, someone said its the flu.

Is it possible... i guess maybe. Probable? nah.

Look at what is transferable from people to fish, fish to people, other animals to people, etc... (the stuff with actual evidence that is) i will venture to say that most of it is not contracted the way the flu is. In general, avian flu (bird flu) is transmitted not because a bird coughs on you, but direct contact with the sick birds feces, blood, etc...

Just dont be so quick to conclude something like this...with out anything to really back it up. Why dont we have the same epidemic today? We still get the flu...right? You state the fist that survived were immune, but each year, we are attacked by a different strain of the flu virus, so how is it they became immune to every strain? and we didnt?

[Barbie]

So again I ask, where exactly could we find documentation of this event? Studies being done on the correlations? How about even an article in a fish magazine? While I'm sure the fish had a virus, I'm also quite sure that if it was transferable by human contact it would still be being looked into. Without documentation this is definitely an urban myth, whether you believe in it whole heartedly or not. If you can show proof that there's a correlation, great! I'd love to see it. If you can't, how do you justify your defense of a point with no valid basis?

Barbie

[emc7]

I guess I'll change my opinion from "never" to "possible" on this one. We know flu viruses swap genetic material even if the viruses don't infect the same species. I guess a human flu virus could give a boost to a mostly harmless fish virus and set off on epidemic. Still I think the risk of deferred maintainence is likely a greater threat. But if you are really sick and likely to fall off the stool and break the tank, go to bed.

[dogsare4losers]

Yeah I figure I'll avoid my fish until I'm better...Better to be safe than sorry....Whether it's a myth or not I think it's possible (like emc) and I personally don't care about documentation, I think that if it's possible, it's possible. So my advice is check your water, if it's good don't worry. If it's bad you can change it yourself or try and get a buddy to change it.

But seeing how you don't have any of the fish who are the most likely to catch it I think you'll be ok

[GoodMike]

One official warning for GoodMike, hot and fresh!

[TheOldSalt]

GRRR!!!
Well, I got timed out on my response, and I'm not gonna type all that again.
Long story short, if you want to look up a few FTFFA aquaculture bulletins from the late 80's-early90's which covered this, feel free. You might find some more recent stuff online, such as the new version of the disease which infects wildcaught angels & discus, and is the main reason we can't keep Altums alive in this country for the most part, although that situation is improving. You might find mention of how it affects malaysian fishfarmers as well, and has been investigated as a possible source of it's spread from farm to farm. It's an iridovirus, if that helps you. Rams and many other cichlids have their own rhabdovirus problem going, but that's not a problem for humans.

Why isn't it such a big problem anymore, Mike? Viruses mutate rapidly, and as such they come and go fairly quickly. The iridovirus which today wrecks Altums & Gouramis and wildcaught angels may or may not be the one which caused all the problems last time, or maybe it used to be but is now different.
Why doesn't "the flu" still cause problems for fish? Well, because there are oodles of 'flus' and the one responsible may be long gone. Even if it's still around, we humans have had 20+ years to become immune to it, so we'd likely not notice it. Your question is flawed. I never said that angels became immune to every kind of flu while we didn't. There's only one or two involved here, and I think the main problem is that people tend to say THE flu instead of A flu. Your fish don't get your flu because it's either the wrong flu or because they are immune to the right one.

JUSTIFY my better-safe-than-sorry approach? Oh, please. If you're even going to ask such a question, then it's obvious we're done.

[GoodMike]

wow, didnt know sarcasm was against the board rules. my bad

[TheOldSalt]

Well, now you know. You ridiculed another poster for no good reason ( and, in fact, for a very bad reason ) in a way that went a tad beyond the limit of civility. Sardony & sarcasm are okay within polite limits.