High PH level (help please)

[Newf]

Hello boys and girls

Last week i set my new 108 gallon tank up and soon after added my fish ( mostly SA Cichlids)

I tested my PH today and its looking about 8.4. (i narrowed it down to the tuffa rock which will be removed)
I know that the high PH won't have too much of a negative short term affect on my fish right now, but where it is a new tank i'm expecting the amonia spike soon (currently amonia is nil) and i know that the combination is fatal.

If the tank was established i would probally just let the PH lower itself overtime with water changes, but i don't think the "natural" course has enough time to take place. (especially if my 6" pleco AKA the Crap Factory has anything to say about it)

I hate adding chemicals to my aquariums, but i think i should consider something to lower the PH. Can anyone reccomend another method before i add any chemicals to the tank? I know that no chemical is a good chemical, but how well does the PH reducing stuff work? How long does it useually take to work? I'd like it out the the aquarium cycle asap.

Thanks,

Newf

[ron v]

OK, so the tank is uncycled and you have added fish? How many, what size? Any chance you could take the fish back or put them into an established tank. Are the fish "expendable"? Is your plan to use the fish you have now to cycle the tank? Don't worry about lowering the PH, although you are right, high PH and ammonia is a bad combo. Lowering PH is not easy and takes a lot of tinkering with chemicals, etc. and you have more serious things to consider right now. If you want to save your fish, you are gonna have to figure out how to keep the ammonia high enough to cycle and low enough to not damage your fish.

[Newf]

Hi Ron,
The tank was cycled for a few days... not long enough to get much of a bacteria groth growing i know, but i didn't just fill the tank up and though the fish in They really looked unhappy in their 40 gallon tank as of late so i wanted to move them to their bigger home asap. Some ornaments i've used came from their old tank to help speed up the cycling process.

The fish range in size from about 2" convicts to a 6" Jack Dempsey, and the average is probally 3.5", and no they are not expendable... not sure who has fish that are "expendable".

Right now the fish seem to really enjoy their new home, they have great colour, they're active and are eating well.

I do have the time and am more then willing to test the water on a daily basis or more if needed, to closely track the water conditions.

Their old tank now houses African Cichlids, and the only available tank i have is a 30 gallon. So i don't wan't to stress them out by moving them again and adding them to such a small tank.

Is there any other recomendations you could give? Maybe give them a little extra food or add a couple of java ferns?

Thanks,

Newf

[ron v]

Sorry about the "expendable" comment. I didn't mean to offend. Actually many people consider fish expendable. That's why they buy a few cheap fish to "cycle" a tank with. I don't agree, but that's the way it is. That's why I ask you the question. I still don't know how many fish you have in the tank. If it's only the 3-4 that you mentioned, you may be OK. It's a big tank and the bio-load may not be high enough to cause problems. But if overcrowded, unless you do something quick, you are going to have problems. Everything will seem fine for a few days. It takes a while for the ammonia to build up to lethal levels and then comes nitrites, which is more toxic than ammonia. Is your 30 gal tank cycled? If so get them into it asap. If you think another move will be stressful...... Just wait a couple of days. If they absolutely have to stay in the big tank, you might try plants. Lots of fast growing plants, with good light will consume ammonia. The only other thing I know of is lots of water changes ( 50% a day ) to dilute toxins. Good luck.

[Damon]

You can also try to get your hands on some bio-spira.

[ron v]

Yes, simpte, that's a good idea!!!

[Gracie6363]

simpte read my mind... i add Cycle product to my tanks, but it tends to take a little time as well, but not nearly as long as a regular fish cycle. ****But I hear biospria works in 1 day!

after this post and several other posts recently regarding ph, amonia and nitrite levels I decided to do a tank test on my tanks... it's been ages since I have done them.

PH on both tanks is 7.2

10 gallon Ammonia is 0 PPM
40 gallon Ammonia is .25-.5 PPM (set up for only 1 week)

10 gallon Nitrite is 0 PPM
40 gallon Nitrite is .25 PPM

On the 40 gallon tank, it was an older tank that was established that I took over from my sister in law. I kept the filter without doing much cleaning. I did replace the rocks and clean off the plants and other decorations. I added plenty of stress coat and Cycle product. It started with 5 red minor tetra, 2 leopard cory and a larger pl*co. Yesterday I added 2 dwarf gourami and 2 small bala. VERY happy to see the levels are still doing good!

[TANKER]

OK, rather than dance around the issue here I will just come right out and answer the original question, how to lower ph quickly and cheaply.
Vinegar.
Vinegar is a highly acidic compound with no coloring, or contaminants to foul your tank. However, when using any additives to modify water conditions do it in moderation. Change ph by no more than .5 per 24 hour period or you can shock your fish. Also be sure to use heavy aeration as this will help to stimulate the growth of your bio filter and speed the cycle.

[Damon]

Vinegar only works with a low KH. With a PH of 8.4 it would take way too much vinegar to reduce your PH and keep it there. PLus the smell that all that vinegar would have would be awful. Muriatic acid is strong enough to accomplish what you desire but should only be used as a last resort. It will burn your skin severly and has to be dilluted severly before adding to a tank. Not an option for everyone. I would just wait it out or find an alternate water souce that has a low PH already.