Swim bladder?

LunaBetta · 05-13-2005, 10:12 PM

Okay, we took all of our bettas in to the kitchen for their water change and noticed something very odd about "Blaze" our oldest Betta. We have had him since about November and got him at a local pet store. We noticed that he seemed to be fighting very hard to stay on the bottom of his tank and the second he stopped fighting he bobbed back up to the top like a fishing bobber. When he was fighting to stay at the bottom his rear end stayed up. We also noticed his gills were more flared or poofed out than usual. When he breathes at the surface a HUGE bubble comes out. We don't know what's wrong. We thought maybe it was swim bladder but we are really looking for more insight. please help?

Cichlid Man · 05-14-2005, 07:38 AM

Thats the problem when water changes are carried out repeatedly, the fishes system dosn't have time to ajust to the new/cleaner water conditions. Best not do as many water changes from now on and don't feed your other bettas as much to prevent the same thing from happening. Poor fish.

**TheOldSalt** · 05-14-2005, 01:58 PM

What??

Your fish has either gas or a swimbladder infection, and there's not much to do about it in either case but wait to see what happens.

Celeste · 05-14-2005, 03:57 PM

how can changing the water too much cause that? that makes no sense. i do a 100% water change once a week on my bettas and have never had that kind of problem, and i feed them once a day, probably more than most people do (about 8 betta pellets or a small pinch of blood worms)

Thunderkiss · 05-14-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cichlid Man @ Sat May 14, 2005 7:38 am

Thats the problem when water changes are carried out repeatedly, the fishes system dosn't have time to ajust to the new/cleaner water conditions. Best not do as many water changes from now on and don't feed your other bettas as much to prevent the same thing from happening. Poor fish.

WRONG!

You will NEVER kill a fish with fresh water if you have been doing your water changes regularly, and are useing the same water source and perform the change appropriately; temp etc.

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 06:19 AM

Yes, but the problem is when water changes are not done regulary and the water quality gets bad and then when all of the sudden a 100% water change is carried out the fish can't get used to the new water parameters in time resulting in a stressed fish prone to disease. Thats the issue here. If you can't get used to the idea that fish don't benifit from extreme changes in water qualities then fish keeping is a waste of time for you.

Thunderkiss · 05-15-2005, 06:23 AM

Normally you'd have a point, however weekly water changes qualify as "regular". That point is therefore moot.

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 06:26 AM

It's not about how many water changes you do, it's what you do to keep the water desirable for the fish without letting the water drop to undesirable levels.

Thunderkiss · 05-15-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cichlid Man @ Sun May 15, 2005 6:26 am

It's not about how many water changes you do, it's what you do to keep the water desirable for the fish without letting the water drop to undesirable levels.

Makes no sense .... because thats exactly what you are doing to keep the water quality up ... the changes, and thereby keeping it from dropping to unnaceptable levels.

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 06:52 AM

The point is, if the water quality drops to say, pH 6.5, nitrates and nitrite quite high and then all of the sudden a 100% water change is carried out and the water is suddenly pH 8, nitrates and nitrite levels are 0, in a short space of say 5 minutes, this puts a huge amount of stress on the fish causing a disease outbreak more likely. But if the water gets undesirably bad and then say 10% of the water is changed every day until the water quality is exeptable, THEN 100% water changes can be carried out on a regular basis to prevent the water quality dropping again in the future.

Thunderkiss · 05-15-2005, 06:56 AM

And you honestly think that those conditions were occuring in a betta bowl?

My thought is not likely.

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 06:59 AM

Well thats the problem with betta bowls, water fluctuations can be extreme due to no filteratian system. Those water parameters were just examples.

Thunderkiss · 05-15-2005, 07:01 AM

And i agree, however this case in point, those that you pointed out, however accurate in other situations would be VERY unlikely to occur in the example above.

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 07:04 AM

And I agree, but if you don't test your water regulary then you haven't a clue of what could be going on with your water. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with betta bowls.

Thunderkiss · 05-15-2005, 07:19 AM

I was under the impression that your point was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cichlid Man @ Sun May 15, 2005 6:19 am

Yes, but the problem is when water changes are not done regulary and ****the water quality gets bad and then when all of the sudden a 100% water change is carried out the fish can't get used to the new water parameters in time resulting in a stressed fish prone to disease. Thats the issue here. If you can't get used to the idea that fish don't benifit from extreme changes in water qualities then fish keeping is a waste of time for you.

To which i responded (at length)

Quote:

Normally you'd have a point, however weekly water changes qualify as "regular". That point is therefore moot.

Heh, i guess we were arguing 2 different points ... or something

Cichlid Man · 05-15-2005, 01:56 PM

LOL, it's all healthy good fun.

Celeste · 05-15-2005, 02:05 PM

if done right, betta bowls are just fine. i never test the water in my betta bowls and they all are perfectly happy, always have been. i have no filters, no heaters, i do 100% water change once a week and have never had a problem. i've never even had a betta get Ich before! my pond fish, who are in a 150 gallon pond with a filter made for a 300 gallon pond get ich every spring! we have never lost a fish to ich because we always treat it right away and they recover completely, but they still seem to get it every spring. i've never had a betta get anything in a betta bowl. my new betta, he's been in his bowl for less than 48 hours and he's already got a nice bubble nest going.

05-13-2005, 10:12 PM	#1
LunaBetta Fishy Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wausau, WI Posts: 16	Swim bladder? Okay, we took all of our bettas in to the kitchen for their water change and noticed something very odd about "Blaze" our oldest Betta. We have had him since about November and got him at a local pet store. We noticed that he seemed to be fighting very hard to stay on the bottom of his tank and the second he stopped fighting he bobbed back up to the top like a fishing bobber. When he was fighting to stay at the bottom his rear end stayed up. We also noticed his gills were more flared or poofed out than usual. When he breathes at the surface a HUGE bubble comes out. We don't know what's wrong. We thought maybe it was swim bladder but we are really looking for more insight. please help?

05-14-2005, 07:38 AM	#2
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? Thats the problem when water changes are carried out repeatedly, the fishes system dosn't have time to ajust to the new/cleaner water conditions. Best not do as many water changes from now on and don't feed your other bettas as much to prevent the same thing from happening. Poor fish. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-14-2005, 03:57 PM	#4
Celeste Guardian of Angolenor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington state Age: 23 Posts: 162	Re: Swim bladder? how can changing the water too much cause that? that makes no sense. i do a 100% water change once a week on my bettas and have never had that kind of problem, and i feed them once a day, probably more than most people do (about 8 betta pellets or a small pinch of blood worms) __________________ Concealed by nights icy cloak Through the brambles, not a sound Whisper like a shade to choke With blades of venom, to the ground

05-15-2005, 06:19 AM	#6
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? Yes, but the problem is when water changes are not done regulary and the water quality gets bad and then when all of the sudden a 100% water change is carried out the fish can't get used to the new water parameters in time resulting in a stressed fish prone to disease. Thats the issue here. If you can't get used to the idea that fish don't benifit from extreme changes in water qualities then fish keeping is a waste of time for you. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-15-2005, 06:26 AM	#8
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? It's not about how many water changes you do, it's what you do to keep the water desirable for the fish without letting the water drop to undesirable levels. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

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05-14-2005, 01:58 PM	#3
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,534	What?? Your fish has either gas or a swimbladder infection, and there's not much to do about it in either case but wait to see what happens.

05-15-2005, 06:23 AM	#7
Thunderkiss Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 376	Normally you'd have a point, however weekly water changes qualify as "regular". That point is therefore moot.

05-15-2005, 06:52 AM	#10
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? The point is, if the water quality drops to say, pH 6.5, nitrates and nitrite quite high and then all of the sudden a 100% water change is carried out and the water is suddenly pH 8, nitrates and nitrite levels are 0, in a short space of say 5 minutes, this puts a huge amount of stress on the fish causing a disease outbreak more likely. But if the water gets undesirably bad and then say 10% of the water is changed every day until the water quality is exeptable, THEN 100% water changes can be carried out on a regular basis to prevent the water quality dropping again in the future. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-15-2005, 06:56 AM	#11
Thunderkiss Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 376	And you honestly think that those conditions were occuring in a betta bowl? My thought is not likely.

05-15-2005, 06:59 AM	#12
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? Well thats the problem with betta bowls, water fluctuations can be extreme due to no filteratian system. Those water parameters were just examples. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-15-2005, 07:01 AM	#13
Thunderkiss Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 376	And i agree, however this case in point, those that you pointed out, however accurate in other situations would be VERY unlikely to occur in the example above.

05-15-2005, 07:04 AM	#14
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? And I agree, but if you don't test your water regulary then you haven't a clue of what could be going on with your water. All I'm saying is that I don't agree with betta bowls. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-15-2005, 01:56 PM	#16
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,093	Re: Swim bladder? LOL, it's all healthy good fun. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

05-15-2005, 02:05 PM	#17
Celeste Guardian of Angolenor Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington state Age: 23 Posts: 162	Re: Swim bladder? if done right, betta bowls are just fine. i never test the water in my betta bowls and they all are perfectly happy, always have been. i have no filters, no heaters, i do 100% water change once a week and have never had a problem. i've never even had a betta get Ich before! my pond fish, who are in a 150 gallon pond with a filter made for a 300 gallon pond get ich every spring! we have never lost a fish to ich because we always treat it right away and they recover completely, but they still seem to get it every spring. i've never had a betta get anything in a betta bowl. my new betta, he's been in his bowl for less than 48 hours and he's already got a nice bubble nest going. __________________ Concealed by nights icy cloak Through the brambles, not a sound Whisper like a shade to choke With blades of venom, to the ground

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