Fancy Goldfish with Koi

[John]

When I take my small koi (they are about 3 inches right now) inside to the large indoor pond for the winter, I would also like to put my Lionhead, Comet, and a few others in there too. This would be fine (as long as I don't overstock the pond), right?

I'm just worried that there might be some conflicts between the larger carp and the smaller carp!

Here's what I would like in the pond:

-koi
-fantails
-comets
-common feeders
-lionheads
-ranchus
-other fancy carp

On a related note, could I put the comet and the lionhead in the outdoor pond right now? It's about 65 degrees in our pond. We live in Wisconsin.

One last thing... I need to know of a couple of relatively easy to keep pond plants and a few details on keeping them.

Thanks.

[Ownager2004]

I see no problem moving the goldfish now as long as you acclimate them correctly.

[John]

OK, thanks. I'll move the two goldfish to the pond.

So would a mix of...

7 Koi
15 Feeder Goldfish
3 Shubunkins
3 Orandas
3 Comets
3 Lionheads
3 Fantails
Etc...

...be okay (with enough room)?

I'm also wondering if it would be possible to keep a common lake carp with these fish (I don't think I would actually try that though). Has anyone ever heard of anybody doing this successfully? Carp aren't protected at all where I live, since they are destroying the habitat for pike and other lake fish. Do you think that I could try this? Carp don't usually get any bigger than koi, and I bet they would get along. Maybe I just need to stop doing drugs (j/k), but I think this might be a good idea...

Suggestions?

[Celeste]

i've kept a couple fantails, a shubunkin, and a comet in with our koi in the pond. i keep them outside all year around though. our pond never freezes and we've never lost one to cold. during certain times of the year, the others can kind of bully the fantails a little, but they never got too bad in our pond. its because the fantails can't swim as fast or as well. you just have ot make sure they all get to the food and the ones that can swim fast don't bother the slow simmers too much.

[John]

I'm thinking of purchasing a common grass carp to keep with the koi and goldfish. Is this a good idea?

[maxpayne_lhp]

Sure... That sounds very Chinese style!

[Lexus]

I personally wouldnt put lake carp in with goldfish....

[maxpayne_lhp]

Originally Posted by Lexus

I personally wouldnt put lake carp in with goldfish....

Why? I used to but nothing happened

[Lexus]

possibilitys of diseases and the fact you could never put the carp back in the lake or where ever.

[maxpayne_lhp]

Okay... Thanks

[Fishfirst]

he said purchasing, meaning he's gonna get them from a fish farm. More than likely if you qt you will have no problems, although they get huge dont they??? How big of a pond are we talking? Also please remember that carp are very invasive species... if waterfowl use your pond, I would NOT keep grass carp in your pond, just because of the fact that eggs can get stuck on thier legs and be transfered to another body of water.

[Celeste]

yes carp get huge, but so do Koi. because Koi ARE carp. just "fancy" carp. goldfish are also related to carp, albeit more distantly than Koi. both koi and carp can get to be 2-3 feet long and live to be 25-30 years old

[John]

My two ponds (1 indoor, 1 outdoor) are large enough. They are ornamental, and no local wildlife use them. The only problem I could think of is diseases, but since I am purchasing the grass carp from a fish farm and I am quarantining it, I don't see how that should be too hard.

I am worried, however, about the grass carp (although they are vegetarians) accidentally eating one of the smaller feeder goldfish (because the feeder goldfish will grow slower than them).

[fishboy]

i know some1 whos neighbor keeps grasscarp with great results. They can be seen sticking their heads out of the pond and eating the grass. I would not think they would eat another fish

[John]

Cool, thanks!

It litterally sticks its head out and eats the grass around the pond?! Cool!

The only problem is that I just found out that the farm I wanted to buy one from (in NY) can't ship them out of New York legally. I checked with Wisconsin's wildlife center, and they said it was illegal to catch and keep grass carp (perfectly fine for common carp, but I would prefer grass carp). Do you think that buying captive-raised grass carp is illegal too?

[Celeste]

i think they're worried about them being released into the local ecosystem and throwing it out of whack. is there any way you can find captive bred ones in your area?

my koi are too small to do this yet, they scatter whenever i move near the pond, but i've had large koi actually suck on my finger thinking it was food or something. they have no teeth, so they can't bite. it's pretty cool.

[John]

I know! That is so awesome!

My koi are too small too, but they are already tame (sort of).

I'll look for a carp farm in my area...

[doggydad38]

My understanding is that Grass Carp are a hybrid species that is infertile. Because it is a hybrid it gets huge. A friend of mine here in Cincinnati uses them to keep the s****************line of his lake clear and the carp get well over 6 feet, yes I said feet, long. I don't think something like that would be a good addition to a Koi/Goldfish pond.
Tony

[Celeste]

The grass carp, also known as the white amur, is a vegetarian fish native to the Amur River in Asia. Because this fish feeds on aquatic plants, it can be used as a biological tool to control nuisance aquatic plant growth.

In some situations, sterile grass carp may be permitted for introduction into Washington waters.

ADULT SIZE: Grass carp are usually stocked when they reach 8 to 12 inches. Adults can reach 50 pounds in Ohio.

Where they have become established in the U.S., grass carp have had a negative effect on the ecosystem, as well as on the commercial and recreational fishery. Grass carp feed extensively on aquatic vegetation, often uprooting large areas of vegetation leading to increased turbidity and poorer water quality. Impacts to wetland habitat and species have also been documented.

Many U.S. states and Alberta require grass carp eggs to undergo treatment that results in the production of fish that are unable to reproduce. These fish are referred to as sterile or triploid. Despite this precaution, breeding populations of grass carp do exist in the U.S.

Triploid White Amur........18-36"
White Amur (grass carp) are members of the minnow family. White Amur are of primary interest in the U.S. to control aquatic vegetation, especially where it is desirable to avoid the use of chemical herbicides. Leafy, rooted aquatic plants, such as ponweed and coontail, are the preferred food of the white amur. Lacking these, they will consume floating duckweed, green algae, and even cattails. To accommodate an increasing demand for white amur, yet to avoid the possibility of their becoming established in systems where they are not wanted, a sterile triploid form was developed. This triploid form differs from the natural diploid form in having an extra set of chromosomes in each cell. Although this condition prevents them from reproducing, it does not otherwise affect their vitality. Thus, many states have legalized the sale and use of triploid white amur for vegetation control, while prohibiting the sale of use of diploid white amur.

i love google ^_^

[John]

Thanks Celeste Google works great. Also if you ask it on a forum you get personal opinions also, and experience, and conversations...

doggydad38, Koi which are well kept and given plenty of space can get to over 6 feet also. Usually, the basic maximum is 3 feet, but some koi do keep growing to 6 feet over many years.

So, yes the carp would get big, but I would buy it when it was small, and it probably wouldn't get to over 2 or 3 feet even though I'll give it enough space to grow larger. In the event that it does grow larger, I will give it its own tank or give it to the owner of my LFS. He has many very large ponds and I know he would take it.