How to use Peat?

[smartin78]

I posted a message similar to this earlier but did not get the response I was looking for so I am going to try rewording the question.

I have read about treating water with peat before adding it to a fish tank or adding peat to your filters. If I remember correctly this was used to adjust PH. My tap PH is 8.8 or higher. My fish tank ranges between 6.8 and 7.0. I want to do several large water changes to get my nitrates back in order but I do not want to kill my fish by having the PH yo yo. I would like to get the PH as close to 7.0 as possible before adding it to the tank. I understand that fish can deal with PH higher than recommended but when I did my last large water change I lost my angel fish which I am convinced it was from the shock of the sudden PH increase. 6.8 to about 7.8

Is peat a good concept?
How does it work?
Anything I need to keep in mind when using peat?
Would a chemical PH reducer added to the tap water before added to the tank a better idea?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Damon]

Peat works, but I don't think it will work to the degree you want it too. Running peat through your filters (I use poly fiber bags) will lower your ph but in your tank, that could take forever. Your best bet is to use 70% r.o. water and 30% tap. Peat isn't really viable for your situation.

[Fishnut2]

Hi Smartin78,
If you are looking for PH stability, and your tap is 8.8 to start with. I suggest getting a RO (reverse osmosis) unit. I also recommend a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. Hanna makes a fairly good one for $20-$25. You'll also need some type of container, to store the RO water...and pre-mix the water, before adding it to your tank.
This may sound like a lot of work...especially if you only have 1 tank. But this way, you are taking out the unneeded things in your water...without adding unneccessary chemicals. I could start getting into water chemistry...but I'm sure there are people here...that know a lot more then I do about it. I'll tell you the most important part...IT WORKS

[joe kool]

RO is a good way to go but, you might need to add some type of buffering agent to the RO water as RO water can change PH very quickly due to the removal of almost ALL impurities. some of these "impurities" are what helps the watter "buffer" its self or gurad against rapid ph changes. I'd suggest starting with smaller water changes ... like 25% every day or everyother day and the next week the PH should have stablized higher and you can start doing larger volumes of water untill you have your chemistry where you want it. I too frequently slack off on my water changes and have to follow this type of regimine. not quite to that extent as I use a "buffer" (seachem's tang buffer) in concert with a cichlid salt (seachem's cichlid lake salt) which keeps my ph stable and buffering capacity high and fish happy

[smartin78]

RO sounds like the solution I need. Unfortunately it is a little expensive for me right now. I think I will start saving up. This is not the first time RO has been suggested. A question I have regarding RO is. Will using RO help with my algae problem. I have high Nitrates right now and that is the reason I am wanting to do large water changes, to get that back under control.

Will RO water be bad for a planted tank. I have just a few anarchais (No idea how to spell that) right now but I would like to add Java Fern, Java Moss, Hornwort and maybe a low light sword of some sort. What adjustments will I need to make.

One last question, What is a TDS meter used for. I understand it is total disolved solids but what does this mean to me?

Thanks again

[mrmoby]

Can anyone provide more info on ro units? How much can they provide, cost, how they are plumbed etc? I am in the same boat as Smartin.

[MB75]

Hey. The quickest and moderately-priced solution to your problem is pH-minus products. You add it to the new water before putting it in the tank. Many fish (tetras, apistos) like acidic water with pH 5.5-6.5. So you are right, 7.8-8.8 is too much.

Peat extract is mainly used to create "black water" rather than to reduce pH. It also makes it more difficult for the algae to grow in the tank because it kind of seals certain type of light in the water.

[Damon]

PH altering products add PO4 into your tank. Not a good idea unless you dose ferts accordingly. You want a 23:1 NO3 to PO4 ratio. Adding that much PO4 (phosphate) into your tank by using a PH altering product increases the need to add more NO3 (nitrate). If you don't algae wins.

[MB75]

Interesting information. I have used Tetra's and Sera's pH Minus with no algae problems in several tanks. Well, algae problems also have to do with light so maybe that is another factor here?

But I do have to bring up also the cheapest alternative and maybe the easiest, too: Sulfuric acid. Get it from the pharmacy. But use very carefully - add just a little to a bucket of water and test the pH. This way you soon learn how much to add to a certain amount of your tap water.

[smartin78]

The thought of putting sulferic acid in my fish tank makes me a little nervouse. I see images of my fish swimming around as there scales melt off. Is this safe???? I think the RO even though quite expensive is going to be my best bet. I was using the PH down but at about 60 drops a 3 gallon bucket that gets time consuming and costly plus like I said I hate the though of using chemicals. Although right now it is unavoidable until I can afford RO.

[joe kool]

from the looks of it "most" of your fish would benifet from higher PH. I'd concentrate on adding to the buffering capacity and "rasing" you PH in your tank, instead of trying to lower the PH of the water your adding to match what the tank is now.

If you run your tank around 7.5ish and do a 25% water change with water @ 8.8ish the temporary "raise" in ph won't be that substantial espicially if your buffering capacity is high which helps make the tank water resistant to PH changes.


just my 2 cents


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[smartin78]

I have some buffer up. I was not sure how this stuff worked and by the name buffer up, I was afraid it would increase my PH. What is PH buffer and how does it work? Will this add to my Algae problem?

Also I checked My Ph of my tank 4 days after my big water change that I did when I realized I had this problem. The PH went from about 7.4 to 6.8 in those 4 days. What would cause that. I do have drift wood but that is a pretty fast drop (I think). From what it sounds like the PH buffer would stop this problem???

[joe kool]

buffering would slow the drop in PH.

even in my 100 gal with 130ish pounds of crushed coarl substrait (helps in buffering capacity) and 6 or 7 med/large TUFA stones ( another buffer helper) and 3 nice large pieces of coral (see crushed coral ) my ph will drop over time as the bacteria break down the waist ad produce ammonia and then nitrite then nitrate.. this whole procees affects your PH. water changes help stop/slow down the process because it lowers the levels of the waste products.

also wha twas your PH before the water change? PH "rebound" will cause the ph to quickly raise or lower in the tank to try and return to wha the PH had stabelized at befor ethe water change ... unless you add something to prevent this or do more frequent water changes.

I think "lisachromis" had a website like to a good explination on water chemistry

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[DavidDoyle]

Before trying to change the water chemistry, I would be a lot more concerned by finding out what is causing almost a 2.0 drop in the pH between the tap and the tank.

The first place I would start is by verifying the tap pH. To do this fill a glass with tap water, put an airstone in it and bubble it for 90 mins, then test it. This will determine if dissolved gases are in the tap which cause a high reading, one which drops as the water outgasses.

If the pH is the same before and after this test I would check on what is in the tank that might be lowering the Ph so drastically. If you are really bad about doing water changes, then the nitrogen cycle could be the culprit as:

In particular, the nitrogen cycle creates a tendency for an established tank's pH to decrease over time. The exact amount of pH change depends on the quantity and rate of nitrates produced, as well as the KH.

The biggest challenge in altering pH, especially by a large amount is maintaining the stability. The new water must closely match the params of the tank water when it is added.

[smartin78]

The water in the tank dropped the 2.0 with a little help from the PH down I put in. I new my PH in my tank hung around 6.8 - 7.0.

I was very bad about doing water changes. I stress the VERY. Honestly I had gotten out of the hobby but I still had a tank full of water with a few survivors in it. Well some how these survivors namely my two Severums decided to lay eggs. Well this sparked my interest again. In the search for how to care for my Severums I discovered this website. I quickly learned all the information that I was given 13 years ago was highly inacurate and have had to totally change the what I was doing. So I am now back on the road to fixing this tank.

Anyway back to the water parameters. I new the PH in the tank was about 6.8 - 7.0 I had measured my tap a while back and I must have tested it wrong because I thought it read 7.6 which I thought would be no big deal. About 30 min after doing a 75% water change I tested the chemicals again mainly looking at the Nitrates. They are still above 160 PPM after many 25% and 1 75% Water change. Anyway the PH really caught my eye. In a panic I grabbed my trusty old PH down and lowered it back to where it use to be. My thought was if I took care of it fast enough the rapid increase would not effect them. I am guessing I was wrong. I did loose my Angel. The other fish are all doing OK. So that is what caused the rapid decrease in PH. By itself the tank only dropped from around 7.6 to 6.8 in around 4 days may have been a little longer. 6.8 is where it usually tested and is where it is continuing to test now. I did a 30% change last night. I will test it when I get home tonight.

[MB75]

Even a drop of just "one" in pH is a huge drop in fact. pH is a logarithmic value and pH 5 is 100 times more acidic than pH6.

[karatechic007]

i have never known RO water to harm plants....that is what i use in my tank and i have had many different plants in it.......snails are a different matter ....they seemed to enjoy eating my plants up, until i got rid of them