Stocking question

Sylvia27 · 09-15-2005, 10:37 AM

Hi:

I got a new tank and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to organize them.
I gave up the idea of kissing gouramis since they require too much space.

What do you think about the following arrangement?

20 gallon tank
- 2 goldfish
- black mystery snail

I'm probably adding an oranda or a moor.
I know the general concensus is 10 gallon/goldfish, but for such a big tank, I think it's so strange to have only 2.
Also, could I put a ghost shrimp in there?

15 gallon tank.
- 6 neons
- 6 tiger barbs
- 1 electric yellow cychlid
- 1 swordtail
- 2 corry cats
- 1 dwarf frog

Would that be OK? Are those compatible?

Thanks for your feedback.

Sylvia

**Damon** · 09-15-2005, 10:47 AM

The general concensus is 30 gallon for the first goldie and 20 for the second.
As for your 15 gallon, if you were asking about it, The barbs need a 30 gallon tank minimum for swimming space. The cichlid and the neons require completely different water chemistry. Cories should be kept in groups of 5 or more.

**Cichlid Man** · 09-15-2005, 11:08 AM

I don't know what you mean by "electric yellow cichlid", you're probably talking about a labidochromis (yellow lab), which as Simpte said, isn't ideal for your setup, and will be very aggressive to your other inhabitants if kept alone.
As for tiger barbs, a shoal can be kept in a 20g tank, but with all those other fish you mentioned it's just going to be too crowded. Because you are dealing with shoaling fish, it will be safe to add only a few fish at a time so that they can establish themselves before you overload the tank. My advice would be to just start off with a few neons at first, and then move on to larger things like corys. I wouldn't add a swordtail if I was you, a completely different fish for a completely different environement, a male could also be a bit pugnacous.

Sylvia27 · 09-15-2005, 12:40 PM

Thanks.

Now, if I would start with neons, what could I add later on?

Could I add a small angelfish?

Sylvia

**Cichlid Man** · 09-15-2005, 01:24 PM

Yes, angels live with neons in the wild, but you have to remember that they can grow very large, and what else comes with size? the potential to consume it's fellow tank mates.

**Damon** · 09-15-2005, 01:24 PM

In a 20 gallon, you could have your neons and if you kept up on the water, 2 angels. Maybe a small school of cories for the bottom or a cpl of black kuhli loaches.

**Cichlid Man** · 09-15-2005, 01:26 PM

If keeping khulis though, take into account that they can get sucked up into the average filter.

Sylvia27 · 09-16-2005, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpte

In a 20 gallon, you could have your neons and if you kept up on the water, 2 angels. Maybe a small school of cories for the bottom or a cpl of black kuhli loaches.

Thanks for your reply.

About goldfish. I don't want to contradict you. You're probably right.
I just wonder how many people keep their goldfish (this is a fantail type) in a 30 gallon tank.

So, since I already have my 2 goldfish, I need my 20 gallon tank for them.

Could I use my 15 gallon for the tropical set up with neons, 2 angels and 2 corycats?

Thanks.

Sylvia

**Damon** · 09-16-2005, 07:04 AM

Unfortunately no. The angels need a bit more room. The neons really should have more room also but if water conditions were kept pristine, it is possible................
The cories fall into the same category as neons but they would have the best chance.

For goldfish resources...............
http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/car_aur.html
http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/fishcare.htm

Sylvia27 · 09-16-2005, 08:14 AM

Thanks for those links. The calculation for goldfish tanks was most helfpul!

So for my 15 gallon tank, what could I add to my neons if I can't add angels?
My LFS says I can keep them together with tiger barbs as long as I keep them in groups.

Sylvia

euRasian32 · 09-16-2005, 08:19 AM

Tiger Barbs are semi-aggressive fin nippers. Keeping a school of them will keep them occupied for a SHORT while. Proceed with caution unless you opt for all semi-aggressive fish.

**Damon** · 09-16-2005, 08:44 AM

I would get a gourami or maybe a pair of S.A. dwarf cichlids (Apistogrammas). There are species small enough to work well in a 15 gallon.

cucci67 · 09-18-2005, 07:50 AM

Just to let everyone know, his 20 gallon is really a 29 gallon. He gave me the dimensions in a differnet post, and it is a standard 29. He said his tank was 30" long x 12" widex 18" tall.

In your 15 gallon, a pair of dwarf gouramis would go great, and you can put cardinal tetras with them, as they like the same conditions. I don't know too much about goldfish, so I can't help you there.

**Cichlid Man** · 09-18-2005, 08:03 AM

Whoa! Slow down, cardinal tetras need special attention and are very sensitive. Neons are hardier and more ideal to be kept with DG's.

Lydia · 09-18-2005, 08:11 AM

Not in my experience. I, for some reason, can not keep neons alive. I have never kept cardinals, so I don't know about them, but neons just will not survive for me. And I have been keeping fish for 3-4 years so I don't think it is just inexperience. I hope not at least, lol.

cucci67 · 09-18-2005, 08:13 AM

Dwarf gouramis prefer higher temps than neons, and neons prefer a more acidid pH than DG's. A family friend of mine has kept his cardinals for years, with no special attention, and he finds his cardinals are quite hardy. Considering cardinal tetras and Dwarf gouramis prefer basically the same conditions and are the same temperment, why not keep them together?

AshleytheGreat · 09-18-2005, 11:56 AM

I think apistos would go great in the 15 gal> Good look on trying to find some! My LFS never has any

**Damon** · 09-18-2005, 01:00 PM

Check aquabid for apistodave. The best I've seen as he partners with Uwe Roemer, a very respected member of the cichlid community who has been published several times. Their quality is excellent and great prices.

Sylvia27 · 09-19-2005, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpte

Unfortunately no. The angels need a bit more room. The neons really should have more room also but if water conditions were kept pristine, it is possible................
The cories fall into the same category as neons but they would have the best chance.

For goldfish resources...............
http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/car_aur.html
http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/fishcare.htm

Hi Simpte:

Somebody mentioned my tank would actually be a 29 gallon based upon the dimensions I gave up here.
In that case, would my tank still be too small for angels? The tank is 18" tall.

Sylvia

Thunderkiss · 09-19-2005, 11:12 AM

Neons like thier water ultra clean ... add them last, not first.

09-15-2005, 10:37 AM	#1
Sylvia27 Fishy Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 37 Posts: 23 User Feedback: (0)	Stocking question Hi: I got a new tank and I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to organize them. I gave up the idea of kissing gouramis since they require too much space. What do you think about the following arrangement? 20 gallon tank - 2 goldfish - black mystery snail I'm probably adding an oranda or a moor. I know the general concensus is 10 gallon/goldfish, but for such a big tank, I think it's so strange to have only 2. Also, could I put a ghost shrimp in there? 15 gallon tank. - 6 neons - 6 tiger barbs - 1 electric yellow cychlid - 1 swordtail - 2 corry cats - 1 dwarf frog Would that be OK? Are those compatible? Thanks for your feedback. Sylvia

09-15-2005, 10:47 AM	#2
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982 User Feedback: (0)	The general concensus is 30 gallon for the first goldie and 20 for the second. As for your 15 gallon, if you were asking about it, The barbs need a 30 gallon tank minimum for swimming space. The cichlid and the neons require completely different water chemistry. Cories should be kept in groups of 5 or more. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

09-15-2005, 11:08 AM	#3
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100 User Feedback: (0)	I don't know what you mean by "electric yellow cichlid", you're probably talking about a labidochromis (yellow lab), which as Simpte said, isn't ideal for your setup, and will be very aggressive to your other inhabitants if kept alone. As for tiger barbs, a shoal can be kept in a 20g tank, but with all those other fish you mentioned it's just going to be too crowded. Because you are dealing with shoaling fish, it will be safe to add only a few fish at a time so that they can establish themselves before you overload the tank. My advice would be to just start off with a few neons at first, and then move on to larger things like corys. I wouldn't add a swordtail if I was you, a completely different fish for a completely different environement, a male could also be a bit pugnacous. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

09-15-2005, 12:40 PM	#4
Sylvia27 Fishy Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 37 Posts: 23 User Feedback: (0)	compatibility with neons Thanks. Now, if I would start with neons, what could I add later on? Could I add a small angelfish? Sylvia

09-15-2005, 01:24 PM	#5
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100 User Feedback: (0)	Yes, angels live with neons in the wild, but you have to remember that they can grow very large, and what else comes with size? the potential to consume it's fellow tank mates. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

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09-15-2005, 01:26 PM	#7
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100 User Feedback: (0)	If keeping khulis though, take into account that they can get sucked up into the average filter. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

09-16-2005, 07:04 AM	#9
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982 User Feedback: (0)	Unfortunately no. The angels need a bit more room. The neons really should have more room also but if water conditions were kept pristine, it is possible................ The cories fall into the same category as neons but they would have the best chance. For goldfish resources............... http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/car_aur.html http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/fishcare.htm __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

09-16-2005, 08:14 AM	#10
Sylvia27 Fishy Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Age: 37 Posts: 23 User Feedback: (0)	Thanks for those links. The calculation for goldfish tanks was most helfpul! So for my 15 gallon tank, what could I add to my neons if I can't add angels? My LFS says I can keep them together with tiger barbs as long as I keep them in groups. Sylvia

09-16-2005, 08:19 AM	#11
euRasian32 Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia Age: 33 Posts: 752 User Feedback: (2)	Tiger Barbs are semi-aggressive fin nippers. Keeping a school of them will keep them occupied for a SHORT while. Proceed with caution unless you opt for all semi-aggressive fish. __________________ “Corporations pay people just enough money so they won’t quit. People work just enough so they don’t get fired. What's that about?” – Christopher Walken, Pool Hall Junkies

09-16-2005, 08:44 AM	#12
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982 User Feedback: (0)	I would get a gourami or maybe a pair of S.A. dwarf cichlids (Apistogrammas). There are species small enough to work well in a 15 gallon. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

09-18-2005, 07:50 AM	#13
cucci67 No Longer Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 481 User Feedback: (0)	Just to let everyone know, his 20 gallon is really a 29 gallon. He gave me the dimensions in a differnet post, and it is a standard 29. He said his tank was 30" long x 12" widex 18" tall. In your 15 gallon, a pair of dwarf gouramis would go great, and you can put cardinal tetras with them, as they like the same conditions. I don't know too much about goldfish, so I can't help you there.

09-18-2005, 08:03 AM	#14
Cichlid Man Super moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,100 User Feedback: (0)	Whoa! Slow down, cardinal tetras need special attention and are very sensitive. Neons are hardier and more ideal to be kept with DG's. __________________ If you have a big enough tank with enough hiding places, pH of around 7, you can keep virtually any fish together as long as all the fish are around the same size and these two groups of fish are avioded: Serrasalmus Tetradon(figure eights and dwarfs are the exception). I keep a successful community of fish in a 4 foot tank including the following families: Cichlids, tetras, loaches, gouramis, barbs, rainbows, livebearers, killiefish, catfish, puffers.

09-18-2005, 08:11 AM	#15
Lydia Ichthus Owner Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: FL Posts: 1,907 User Feedback: (0)	Not in my experience. I, for some reason, can not keep neons alive. I have never kept cardinals, so I don't know about them, but neons just will not survive for me. And I have been keeping fish for 3-4 years so I don't think it is just inexperience. I hope not at least, lol. __________________ Vote for FishForums!

09-18-2005, 08:13 AM	#16
cucci67 No Longer Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 481 User Feedback: (0)	Dwarf gouramis prefer higher temps than neons, and neons prefer a more acidid pH than DG's. A family friend of mine has kept his cardinals for years, with no special attention, and he finds his cardinals are quite hardy. Considering cardinal tetras and Dwarf gouramis prefer basically the same conditions and are the same temperment, why not keep them together?

09-18-2005, 11:56 AM	#17
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 785 User Feedback: (0)	I think apistos would go great in the 15 gal> Good look on trying to find some! My LFS never has any __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

09-18-2005, 01:00 PM	#18
Damon Aquatic Naturalist Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dayton, Ohio Age: 32 Posts: 14,982 User Feedback: (0)	Check aquabid for apistodave. The best I've seen as he partners with Uwe Roemer, a very respected member of the cichlid community who has been published several times. Their quality is excellent and great prices. __________________ For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Member of the AGA (Aquatic Gardner's Association) Member of the IBC (International Betta Congress)

09-19-2005, 11:12 AM	#20
Thunderkiss Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 376 User Feedback: (0)	Neons like thier water ultra clean ... add them last, not first.

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