Serpae Help please

[twamaso]

Hi and thanks in advance. Your help will for sure be appreciated. I have a 55 Gal. With 2 Angels, 6 Harlaquin Rasbora, 6 Neon Tetra, 6 Glow Lite Tetra, 2 Cory Cats, 3 Otto, and 1 Rainbow shark, for a total of 26 mostly small fish. For several months I have been watching a tank at a pet store with some angels, neons and Serpae. I just loved the Serpae but looked in several stores and every tank of them they all looked to have fin rot. I waited for several months but always the same. Well I have delt with a little fin rot in my angels. Two or three days of Melafix and the problem was solved. So I finally decided to get 8 of the Serpae, put them in my healthy tank and give them a little treatment and watch. Well within two days I saw the top of my angels had some fraying. After a little cursing I began to treat in ernest with Melafix. It did not seem to be working. Angels Serpae and even one of the corys had some fraying. That is when I started looking on the net and while everyone says that the Serpae are peacful community fish every once in a while you see a fin nipping notice. Soooo my question is first is there a good way for me to tell if this is fin nipping or fin rot? Second if it is nipping and that is what I am thinking it is, is there any way to stop it. I think it is nipping because while I can't tell for sure I think I have witnessed it several times. They chase each other like Pirana but I think I have seen a quick pass at an Angel and the Cory. The Angels also seem to be getting a little aggresive themselves. Sorry for the length here and thanks again for the help.
Troy

[Z Man]

Serpae tetras are notorious fin nippers!

[lochness]

agreed - most all tetras and some rasboras are notorious fin nippers either remove the angels and make a seperate tank for them or remove the just bought serpaes -- also, if any fish had a slight case of disease, the exposed fin areas are now highly prone to getting hit.

[emc7]

The only fish I ever returned to LFS was serpae they nipped my angel's fins.

[RockabillyChick]

everything i've read said that serpaes are evil little fish. they just go around in a wolf pack and terrorize their tank mates.

[dwool36]

Read some of these entries.

[twamaso]

Thanks, it seems pretty certain that they have to go. You all agreed that they are wolves. Funny the link that dwool provided mostly talked about how peaceful they are. That is what I was seeing right up until I bought them of course. Thanks again.

[Fishfirst]

depends on the tetras... my friend has a 55 gallon with 6 serpaes and an angelfish and they don't harrass anything.

[dwool36]

Actually all but one indicated that they were quite the nippers.

[Alin10123]

I've got 10 sepaes in my tank. At first they pretty much nipped at everything that came into site. Sort of like a dog going thru puberty humping everything in sight. Then after a few days they sort of stuck to themselves. Now they odnt harm any of the tank mates at all (at least that i've observed).

The only problem laid within when i tried to add new fish to the tank. When i tried to add then the new ones would always be picked on. I'm talking REALLY aggressively too as in they are determined to eat up their fins. So here's my conclusion.

I think that serpaes are territorial and that's why they fin nip. I think once they are established and used to their tankmates, they will usually leave the other ones alone and just frolick amongst themselves. The key though is to have the new fish in there long enough without getting killed. I did loose a couple of neons to the serpaes due to the nipping. But later on like i said they barely even look at them.

Same goes with my black skirt tetras in my other tank. When i first added the rainbows in there it was like they tried to chase the rainbows as if they were food even though the rainbows were a bigger fish. But then after a couple of hours or of not being able to catch them, i guess they gave up and now no longer try, even if the rainbow slowly swims right by their mouths, they dont even take a 2nd look.

Strange...

Also one thing i've noticed, if another fish tries to nip a black skirt tetra. They will act sort of gangster like. For example, most fish just keep on running and not turn around. The black skirts will run for a couple of inches, then turn back around like "want a piece of me?". That's why other nippy fish rarely pick on them because they will usually be confronted right back if that happens. So... in conclusion... i'm wondering if it's ok to put the serpaes and the black skirts together in the nippy tank, then i'll move the non nippers into my 55 gallon community tank.

[TheOldSalt]

Also, it wasn't very smart to take some fish that you thought might have finrot & dump them into your established tank. That's a great way to make your old fish sick, too.
New fish should be quarantined in a separate tank for a few weeks before being put into the main tank.

[JustOneMore20]

i'm wondering if it's ok to put the serpaes and the black skirts together in the nippy tank, then i'll move the non nippers into my 55 gallon community tank

I say go for it. Put the semi-aggressive fish together.

Yep, serpaes are vicious fin nippers and its not good to put them with angels, fish with long fins, or anything really slow (like gouramis). They should really be kept with other fin-nipping fish, like tiger barbs or black widow tetras. Alot of tetras are nippy, but not all. And not all rasboras are nippy. I have 6 harlequin rasboras with a betta and they are very peaceful. Also, all the tetras I keep are peaceful (head and tailights, flames, rummynose, glowlight, neons). You just have to do some research and find out which ones are more nippy.

[Alin10123]

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

I say go for it. Put the semi-aggressive fish together.

Yep, serpaes are vicious fin nippers and its not good to put them with angels, fish with long fins, or anything really slow (like gouramis). They should really be kept with other fin-nipping fish, like tiger barbs or black widow tetras. Alot of tetras are nippy, but not all. And not all rasboras are nippy. I have 6 harlequin rasboras with a betta and they are very peaceful. Also, all the tetras I keep are peaceful (head and tailights, flames, rummynose, glowlight, neons). You just have to do some research and find out which ones are more nippy.

Hmm... my black skirts are the long finned kind (they've got the longer tails and fins). Is that ok still? I might give that a try. I've also got 3 rainbow fish in the tank in there with the black skirt tetras. The black skirts tried to nip them too at first but they were too quick for them.
Should i keep the rainbow fish together with the black skirts and the serpaes? Or should i move the rainbows over to my community tank and keep the two nippy kinds together? Keep in mind i've got neon tetras in the community 55 gallon. The 55 gallon community will soon have pearl gourami's in it too. The setup i've got now are in my signature. The 55 is a planted tank. Not heavily, but still planted nonetheless.

thanks

[Cichlid Man]

If I was you I'd take the serpaes back. I have a tetra tank with neons, glowlights, black neons, cardinals, rosey tetras, rummy noses, phantoms, harequins (rasboras), lemons, have you noticed that I like colorful tetras? But sepraes are colorful too, now why didn't I get those? I wonder.

[Cichlid Man]

If I was you I'd take the serpaes back. I have a tetra tank with neons, glowlights, black neons, cardinals, rosey tetras, rummy noses, phantoms, harequins (rasboras), lemons, have you noticed that I like colorful tetras? But sepraes are colorful too, now why didn't I get those? I wonder.

[JustOneMore20]

Yeah I would take the Serpaes back. I don't think there is a place for them in either tank. If your black widows are the long finned type, I wouldn't put the Serpaes with them. They will tear them up, even if the widows are also nippy.

I also wouldn't add the gouramis if you are keeping the serpaes. I don't think they'll mix well. Pearls are probably the most peaceful gourami and I think it would be hard for them to get food. I would also be afraid the Serpaes would go after it/them.

Its hard to incorporate such a nippy fish into a peaceful community tank.

[Alin10123]

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Yeah I would take the Serpaes back. I don't think there is a place for them in either tank. If your black widows are the long finned type, I wouldn't put the Serpaes with them. They will tear them up, even if the widows are also nippy.

I also wouldn't add the gouramis if you are keeping the serpaes. I don't think they'll mix well. Pearls are probably the most peaceful gourami and I think it would be hard for them to get food. I would also be afraid the Serpaes would go after it/them.

Its hard to incorporate such a nippy fish into a peaceful community tank.

I would try to take them back but it's been like 6 months since i got them. lol
At the time the people at the store said that they are a community fish and will be fine. Well... that's the last time i listen to them.
What do you guys think i should do with them?

[JustOneMore20]

Can you get like a 10g or 20g tank for them? I know that's kind of expensive to set up another tank.
Or can you try to call the LFS and see if they will exchange them for something? Tell them that they are nipping your angels and you are afraid they will shred the fins of all your fish....see what they say. The worst they can say is no. See if they will give you store credit.

That's all I know to do, since they really don't need to be with the angels or the long fin widows.

I would suggest switching the serpaes for the widow tetras, but the serpaes may harrass your rainbows.

[Alin10123]

Originally Posted by JustOneMore20

Can you get like a 10g or 20g tank for them? I know that's kind of expensive to set up another tank.
Or can you try to call the LFS and see if they will exchange them for something? Tell them that they are nipping your angels and you are afraid they will shred the fins of all your fish....see what they say. The worst they can say is no. See if they will give you store credit.

That's all I know to do, since they really don't need to be with the angels or the long fin widows.

I would suggest switching the serpaes for the widow tetras, but the serpaes may harrass your rainbows.

Well... i needed somewhere to put my sawbwa rasboras becuase since i've bought them they've been at the bottom of a bucket and i've been changing out the water daily. Didn't really have a choice since the serpaes would chase after them like crazy and the other tank had long finned black skirts.

I figured since i had a few hours i'd put a few of the tetras in the other tank and see what would happen. I figure worst case i'd be there to put the serpaes back in the larger tank. The black skirts actually tend to stay towards the middle of the tank while the serpaes actually tend to stay towards the bottom. So i decided to put a few more in. I think the serpaes are actually kind of scared of the black skirts and the rainbow fish. The rainbow fish are probably 3x their size and the black skirts are at least 2x their size not counting the fins.

I'll keep a close eye on the fins and if it gives me ANY trouble at all, i'll just try and at least get store credit from the place i got them from.

thanks for the watchful advise. I'll be keeping my eye on them.

thanks again

[pokagon55]

I have a 46 gal. tank and have serpea's in there and they don't bother anybody. They give chase to one another but that is it.