Florida Starfish

CMonroe · 01-31-2006, 09:19 AM

I have an interesting oportunity, but I'm not sure if I want to take it. A guy I work with just got back from a week long fishing trip in Florida, and inadvertantly brought back some live starfish in his live-well. They pulled up anchor at night, and he dropped the wet & dirty anchor & chain in the livewell to keep the deck clean. When they got back home and started cleaning the boat, they found several starfish in the livewell, still alive. He put them in a bucket and put an air pump on it to keep them alive, but they probably won't last long in a bucket. Being in Houston, it's not reasonable to put them back where he found them, and I cautioned him not to release them locally (Galveston) in case he would be introducing a non-native species, so he offered them to me. I haven't been over to seem them yet, but from the description I think they are some form of echinaster species: http://www.gsmfc.org/seamap/picture_...echinaster.pdf
Has anybody ever tried to keep starfish from Florida in their aquariums (after a suitable quarantine period of course)? Any idea if these would eat my corals, polyps, or clams?

CMonroe

**Fishfirst** · 01-31-2006, 10:12 AM

My guess is that they will most likely eat beneficial sponges, clams, and other inverts. Although TOS probably has a better idea of what their diet consists of. Usually Echinaster species are relatively easy to keep though.

CMonroe · 02-01-2006, 04:13 AM

Definately some form of brown-ish Echinaster species, possibly they are the exact ones in the link I included. It looks like seven of one, and one of the others. They range in size from 2" tip-2-tip, to 4" t-2-t.

After quarantine, I 'may' try the smallest one in my main tank just to see how it does. I have some polyps, a small hitchhiker clam, and a small sickly anemone, that I would hate to lose. I'm a little gunshy when it comes to adding things these days. I added a emrald crab last week to help with my algae problem, but one of the first things I saw it eat was a small possibly bubble tip anemone hitchhiker I had noticed only hours earlier.

CMonroe...

**TheOldSalt** · 02-01-2006, 08:34 AM

Echinasters are very delicate in shipping and difficult to acclimate due to their sensitity to changes, but after that they're very hardy, assuming they don't come down with "the rot" from injury in shipping. They do tend to just melt away, you see, but it they survive they'll last for many years, and even reproduce freely in the aquarium, being one of the easier types to breed since the larvae burrow into the sand instead of floating around pelagically.

They graze on pretty much anything, and will quickly remove all algae from your liverock, along with any anemones, clams, & sponges. They also munch on the tiny fauna in the sand bed. Easy to feed with seaweed & clam meat.

I'd get them in your shoes, since their pretty color makes them easy to resell to your local petshops.

CMonroe · 02-01-2006, 08:54 AM

I picked them up last night, and did a slow-drip acclimation overnight, with water from my main tank. They are in a 5gal bucket at this time, and most of them are actively climbing the sides. A couple are still sitting down in the corners (as if a bucket has corners, but you know what I mean), and aren't very active. None of them appear to be dead or rotting (yet), but I'm going to transfer them to the Q-tank this weekend, after I give it a cleaning, so I can keep a better eye on them. I'll be sure to move them without exposing them to air, but I'm positive they were briefly exposed when the anchor was hauled in, and dropped into the livewell; probably less than 1 minutes exposure.

My Q-tank isn't actually ready for this, so this is what I'm planning to do. Let me know if it sounds like a bad idea...
I'm going to take out the crushed coral, and just leave a bare tank, maybe with a few small pieces of liverock from my main tank, and move an established filter from my main tank to the Q-tank, along with water from the main (I was due for a water change anyway). Hopefully, this will jumpstart the cycle on the Q-tank.

Do you think I should leave the crushed coral substrate in the Q-tank? It's been sitting without filtration for a couple of months, and it's lost a lot of water to evaporation. Maybe I should wash & drain the gravel using saltwater, then keep the substrate in the Q-tank along with new water from the main tank (not the cleaning water) and of course the established filter from the main.

I'm going to do a search on the forum for Q-tank recommendations, but since I've gone through the trouble of typing this up, I'll post it anyway.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

CMonroe

**TheOldSalt** · 02-02-2006, 08:31 AM

I'd remove the crushed coral since it's been sitting for so long. Who knows what's been festering in it? Some sand might make a better substrate in case they decide to do a little burrowing, because sand won't abrade them so much as gravel would. No substrate is really necessary, though.
The rest of your plan sounds just fine.

CMonroe · 02-02-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

I'd remove the crushed coral since it's been sitting for so long. Who knows what's been festering in it? Some sand might make a better substrate in case they decide to do a little burrowing, because sand won't abrade them so much as gravel would. No substrate is really necessary, though.
The rest of your plan sounds just fine.

Doh! Didn't get this in time, oh well...
Last night I washed the old crushed coral well in fresh water, drained it, and put about 1.5" back in the tank (20 gal Hex). I used 5 gal of water from my main tank, and the five gal of water in the buck they were living in for the water in the Q-tank. I did a slow acclimation over about three or four hours before I moved them into the Q-tank. They are all alive, and moving around a bit. Under the aquarium lighting, they actually look pretty good, sort of a red/gold coloration on most. It looks like I have two species, like in the pictures on the original post. One type is rough and more robust, and the other is smoother (but not smooth), and thinner. I'll get some pictures soon. I just have a filtered powerhead on the tank at the moment, there isn't enough water for a backpack power filter yet. I'll add another 5 gal from the main tank Friday night, again with a slow syphon drip over several hours.

One has a bit of damage on an arm, sort of a scraped area. I couldn't see it till I had the lighting in place last night. This may be kind of 'off the wall', but if you have a damaged or diseased limb, might it be better to 'shutter' amputate it rather than let it slowly rot? I hate to be cruel, but since they can grow it back anyway, might it be more 'humane' to take care of it before it dies slowly? Just a thought... (I'm a noob, don't hurt me)

CMonroe

CMonroe · 02-03-2006, 06:08 AM

Day Q2 (Quarantine day two

)

Everything seems to be going well, they are all active. The one with the 'scrape' mark doesn't appear to be any worse, and I'm convinced that it is likely a different species than the rest. That could explain the less rough appearance; maybe the 'scrape' is some normal feature, or a healed scar. I'm still going to keep an eye on it though, but I won't do anything drastic like chopping off the bad arm

I put in two fist sized pieces of liverock from the main tank. Each has a little hair algea (something I've been battling for months in the main tank), and some polycheat (sp) worms. The made tracks towards the rocks and in no time, each rock had three starfish. While I was watching the largest starfish, it expelled some milky-white fluid into the water. I didn't see if it came out of the bottom (likely) or the top, but it quickly dissipated into the water column. I'm going to assume that it 'pooped' unless somebody tells me differently.

I still need to add more water, but I haven't been to the store for purified water, yet. I haven't topped off my main tank, so I can't pull more aged water off for the Q-tank. This will happen by this weekend though, and I'll get that powerfilter on the Q-tank.

If they clean off the liverock by the time I get home from work, I'll feed them some shrimp or clam this afternoon.

CMonroe · 02-06-2006, 03:13 PM

Q-Day 4

They are all doing well. I have more water in the tank, so they have more room to explore. They don't seem interested in the aglae on the rocks, but I think one ate a small piece of fish. The others didn't seem to interested in the fish, but one of the smaller ones seemed to diliberately move on top of the food, and sit there for hours. I couldn't see anything, and it took so long that I don't know if it ate it, or if it moved off, and the current carried the food away. Maybe next time I will get to see the stomach extend around the food. The largest one passed directly over a piece of food but didn't eat it. I still don't have the pictures ready, but I'm working on it.

CMonroe

CMonroe · 02-17-2006, 11:51 AM

Day 16 and they are all still alive, active, and acclimated. I asked the guy at the LFS how often I should feed my 'sea stars' and he said not to, they are scavengers, and will find their own food. That didn't sound like the best advice, so what do you folks think? I've read I should feed them once ever couple weeks, does that sound like better advice?

Now, for a couple of questions about their behavior...
First, I've observed them crawling up the glass to the water surface, and lay one arm out away from the glass, horizontal to the water surface. They will stay like that for up to 30 minutes, and occasionally I see their tube feed extend up and out of the water for a few seconds. I doubt this has anything to do with getting oxygen, because I have plenty aeration in the aquarium. There should NOT be a oxygen problem. Water quality is relatively good, considering I filled the tank with aged water from my main tank, and it probably has some Nitrates in it. Any ideas on what could be causing this problem?

Lastly, this morning, I saw that the two largest starfish have crawled UNDER the pieces of liverock I put in the tank. Not crawled down around the base of it, but directly under it. It looks like somebody picked up this baseball sized piece of rock, and layed it directly on top of the starfish. Just the tips of each arm are sticking out of the crushed coral around the base of the rock. I'm assuming they both did this on perpose, and that it's safe for them, but can anybody tell me why they did that?

CMonroe...

leveldrummer · 02-17-2006, 10:54 PM

im not some one to answer your questions, but i have an idea, and id like to see if im right or not, first, maybe the star fish are climbing the sides, simply trying to learn their new boundaries, trying to go up, but hit air, and are confused. and since alot of stuff tends to work its way under rock, where the circulation is usually poor, maybe the star fish are under there because there is alot of food for them, and they might be hungry from all the stress and such.

**TheOldSalt** · 02-18-2006, 08:44 AM

Most sea stars tend to do both of those very things. It's not unusual at all.
You should of course feed them , at least weekly. Scavenging is fine if there is a lot to scavenge, but if there isn't they'll need something else.

01-31-2006, 09:19 AM	#1
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	Florida Starfish I have an interesting oportunity, but I'm not sure if I want to take it. A guy I work with just got back from a week long fishing trip in Florida, and inadvertantly brought back some live starfish in his live-well. They pulled up anchor at night, and he dropped the wet & dirty anchor & chain in the livewell to keep the deck clean. When they got back home and started cleaning the boat, they found several starfish in the livewell, still alive. He put them in a bucket and put an air pump on it to keep them alive, but they probably won't last long in a bucket. Being in Houston, it's not reasonable to put them back where he found them, and I cautioned him not to release them locally (Galveston) in case he would be introducing a non-native species, so he offered them to me. I haven't been over to seem them yet, but from the description I think they are some form of echinaster species: http://www.gsmfc.org/seamap/picture_...echinaster.pdf Has anybody ever tried to keep starfish from Florida in their aquariums (after a suitable quarantine period of course)? Any idea if these would eat my corals, polyps, or clams? CMonroe

01-31-2006, 10:12 AM	#2
Fishfirst Fish Guru Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Soon to be Northern Wisconsin Age: 24 Posts: 3,487 User Feedback: (1)	My guess is that they will most likely eat beneficial sponges, clams, and other inverts. Although TOS probably has a better idea of what their diet consists of. Usually Echinaster species are relatively easy to keep though. __________________ 210 Gal Reef w/ 55 Gallon Sump/Fuge, 125 Gal Fish Only, 65 Gal Seahorse-29 Gallon Sump, 55 Gal FOWLR, 54 Gal Corner FW Community, 20 Gal Nano FOWLR, 55 Gal Piranha, 29 gallon QT "All the yellow tangs and clownfish in the world can't save you now! hahahah" Peter from Family Guy

02-03-2006, 06:08 AM	#8
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	Day Q2 (Quarantine day two ) Everything seems to be going well, they are all active. The one with the 'scrape' mark doesn't appear to be any worse, and I'm convinced that it is likely a different species than the rest. That could explain the less rough appearance; maybe the 'scrape' is some normal feature, or a healed scar. I'm still going to keep an eye on it though, but I won't do anything drastic like chopping off the bad arm I put in two fist sized pieces of liverock from the main tank. Each has a little hair algea (something I've been battling for months in the main tank), and some polycheat (sp) worms. The made tracks towards the rocks and in no time, each rock had three starfish. While I was watching the largest starfish, it expelled some milky-white fluid into the water. I didn't see if it came out of the bottom (likely) or the top, but it quickly dissipated into the water column. I'm going to assume that it 'pooped' unless somebody tells me differently. I still need to add more water, but I haven't been to the store for purified water, yet. I haven't topped off my main tank, so I can't pull more aged water off for the Q-tank. This will happen by this weekend though, and I'll get that powerfilter on the Q-tank. If they clean off the liverock by the time I get home from work, I'll feed them some shrimp or clam this afternoon. Last edited by CMonroe; 02-03-2006 at 06:10 AM.

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02-01-2006, 04:13 AM	#3
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	Definately some form of brown-ish Echinaster species, possibly they are the exact ones in the link I included. It looks like seven of one, and one of the others. They range in size from 2" tip-2-tip, to 4" t-2-t. After quarantine, I 'may' try the smallest one in my main tank just to see how it does. I have some polyps, a small hitchhiker clam, and a small sickly anemone, that I would hate to lose. I'm a little gunshy when it comes to adding things these days. I added a emrald crab last week to help with my algae problem, but one of the first things I saw it eat was a small possibly bubble tip anemone hitchhiker I had noticed only hours earlier. CMonroe...

02-01-2006, 08:34 AM	#4
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,016 User Feedback: (5)	Echinasters are very delicate in shipping and difficult to acclimate due to their sensitity to changes, but after that they're very hardy, assuming they don't come down with "the rot" from injury in shipping. They do tend to just melt away, you see, but it they survive they'll last for many years, and even reproduce freely in the aquarium, being one of the easier types to breed since the larvae burrow into the sand instead of floating around pelagically. They graze on pretty much anything, and will quickly remove all algae from your liverock, along with any anemones, clams, & sponges. They also munch on the tiny fauna in the sand bed. Easy to feed with seaweed & clam meat. I'd get them in your shoes, since their pretty color makes them easy to resell to your local petshops.

02-01-2006, 08:54 AM	#5
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	I picked them up last night, and did a slow-drip acclimation overnight, with water from my main tank. They are in a 5gal bucket at this time, and most of them are actively climbing the sides. A couple are still sitting down in the corners (as if a bucket has corners, but you know what I mean), and aren't very active. None of them appear to be dead or rotting (yet), but I'm going to transfer them to the Q-tank this weekend, after I give it a cleaning, so I can keep a better eye on them. I'll be sure to move them without exposing them to air, but I'm positive they were briefly exposed when the anchor was hauled in, and dropped into the livewell; probably less than 1 minutes exposure. My Q-tank isn't actually ready for this, so this is what I'm planning to do. Let me know if it sounds like a bad idea... I'm going to take out the crushed coral, and just leave a bare tank, maybe with a few small pieces of liverock from my main tank, and move an established filter from my main tank to the Q-tank, along with water from the main (I was due for a water change anyway). Hopefully, this will jumpstart the cycle on the Q-tank. Do you think I should leave the crushed coral substrate in the Q-tank? It's been sitting without filtration for a couple of months, and it's lost a lot of water to evaporation. Maybe I should wash & drain the gravel using saltwater, then keep the substrate in the Q-tank along with new water from the main tank (not the cleaning water) and of course the established filter from the main. I'm going to do a search on the forum for Q-tank recommendations, but since I've gone through the trouble of typing this up, I'll post it anyway. Thanks in advance for any advice. CMonroe

02-02-2006, 08:31 AM	#6
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,016 User Feedback: (5)	I'd remove the crushed coral since it's been sitting for so long. Who knows what's been festering in it? Some sand might make a better substrate in case they decide to do a little burrowing, because sand won't abrade them so much as gravel would. No substrate is really necessary, though. The rest of your plan sounds just fine.

02-06-2006, 03:13 PM	#9
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	Q-Day 4 They are all doing well. I have more water in the tank, so they have more room to explore. They don't seem interested in the aglae on the rocks, but I think one ate a small piece of fish. The others didn't seem to interested in the fish, but one of the smaller ones seemed to diliberately move on top of the food, and sit there for hours. I couldn't see anything, and it took so long that I don't know if it ate it, or if it moved off, and the current carried the food away. Maybe next time I will get to see the stomach extend around the food. The largest one passed directly over a piece of food but didn't eat it. I still don't have the pictures ready, but I'm working on it. CMonroe

02-17-2006, 11:51 AM	#10
CMonroe Fishy Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 40 Posts: 26 User Feedback: (0)	Day 16 and they are all still alive, active, and acclimated. I asked the guy at the LFS how often I should feed my 'sea stars' and he said not to, they are scavengers, and will find their own food. That didn't sound like the best advice, so what do you folks think? I've read I should feed them once ever couple weeks, does that sound like better advice? Now, for a couple of questions about their behavior... First, I've observed them crawling up the glass to the water surface, and lay one arm out away from the glass, horizontal to the water surface. They will stay like that for up to 30 minutes, and occasionally I see their tube feed extend up and out of the water for a few seconds. I doubt this has anything to do with getting oxygen, because I have plenty aeration in the aquarium. There should NOT be a oxygen problem. Water quality is relatively good, considering I filled the tank with aged water from my main tank, and it probably has some Nitrates in it. Any ideas on what could be causing this problem? Lastly, this morning, I saw that the two largest starfish have crawled UNDER the pieces of liverock I put in the tank. Not crawled down around the base of it, but directly under it. It looks like somebody picked up this baseball sized piece of rock, and layed it directly on top of the starfish. Just the tips of each arm are sticking out of the crushed coral around the base of the rock. I'm assuming they both did this on perpose, and that it's safe for them, but can anybody tell me why they did that? CMonroe...

02-17-2006, 10:54 PM	#11
leveldrummer something like a pimp Join Date: May 2005 Location: atlanta Age: 29 Posts: 1,933 User Feedback: (1)	im not some one to answer your questions, but i have an idea, and id like to see if im right or not, first, maybe the star fish are climbing the sides, simply trying to learn their new boundaries, trying to go up, but hit air, and are confused. and since alot of stuff tends to work its way under rock, where the circulation is usually poor, maybe the star fish are under there because there is alot of food for them, and they might be hungry from all the stress and such.

02-18-2006, 08:44 AM	#12
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,016 User Feedback: (5)	Most sea stars tend to do both of those very things. It's not unusual at all. You should of course feed them , at least weekly. Scavenging is fine if there is a lot to scavenge, but if there isn't they'll need something else.

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