How bad would this be?

[Gopher]

Hi, new here, but not new to fishkeeping. I'll admit though that the only time I've ever kept goldfish before was as 'cycle fish' (that was about 20 years ago). Of late though I've had a growing desire to keep some 'permanently'.

I thought I'd come to understand that they get big and messy and need to be provided for accordingly, but only upon reading on sites such as this one have I gotten a glimpse of just how big and messy... There seem to be a lot of very responsble keepers here, so I trust you'll beat me up properly before I do anything seriously wrong...

I don't have a pond; would like one but that won't happen for a couple of years anyways, and is not to be counted on. I do have a 150 gallon tank that I could free up (currently full of African cichlids that I'm re-homing) and was wondering how many comets would be do-able. Tank is 72x18, filtration is 3 Rena XP3s (room to add an AC110 if needed). All spraybars angled for surface agitation, + there is a powerhead for further surface agitation. I do a 50% water change weekly.

I was hoping 5-7 comets, but have seen some folks recommend no more than two! Is that the consensus? I am not looking for someone to tell me 'what I want to hear' but at the same time feel that my filtering & maintenance habits are sufficiently beyond the 'beginner' level to warrant re-validating that advice...

All replies welcome. Thanks,

[COM]

Why comets? Comets are probably the least appropriate type of goldfish for a tank of nearly any size.

You'd be best off with some of the "fancy" varieties for that tank. Stick to Ryukin and Shubunkin, some of the Orandas. I'd say you could do 12 to 15 of the fancies in your tank and with that filtration you'd be perfectly fine.

[Gopher]

I understand that more could be kept of the fancy varieties, but it's a question of personal taste. The fancy varieties just don't appeal to me much. Sarassa Comets and possibbly Shubunkins (London style) do. If keeping even 4-5 of them in this setup is a bad idea I wouldn't do it though.

The reason I'm feeling drawn to them is that this tank is the one that is in the common area of the house (the others are in my 'fishroom'). The gregarious pet-like nature, liveliness and colourfulness would be a big hit with the 'non-fish-geek' members of the house as well as myself. Cichlid appreciation is more of a niche thing it seems, and best confined to my cave...

[TheOldSalt]

Ah, I see. Well, if you think that you can get a pond someday, then 4 or 5 comets can work until then if you're willing to do the needed maintenance.
I have a 3 year old comet that is 14 inches long. They get big, and they get big quickly. Bear that in mind.

[Gopher]

Thank you both for the candid feedback. I have a month or so to mull it over before deciding on anything.

As for the pond, there are probably by-laws here that would require I put a fence around the yard - have to check into that (and I would probably want to anyways). Very strict standards here on aesthetics and construction quality also (both for the fence and the pond I'm sure), so this gets quite pricey even before I buy any pond equipment. It's something I would love to do though, on a scale of 2,000 gallons or more. I guess the sensible thing would be to tie the 'comet in 150g' decision to whether I decide to pursue the pond idea.

On the pond subject, I do have a couple more questions...

1. I'm in Montreal - how deep does a pond need to be for fish to overwinter here? Is 4' enough?

2. Water changes. Are people with, say, 8,000 gallon ponds really dumping 25% of that water several times a month?? Just thinking environmentally... If I were doing that I'd at least have to rig up a hose to water the lawn with it or something...

[Ghost Knife]

I have kept goldfish successfully in the past and I have had my present tank for about 6 months. I think I am going to get rid of my lone Comet in the next few months though as he is getting close to 6". Anyway, I do a 25% water change every 10-14 days and change out the filter cartridges then too. I have a large Common Pleco that keeps my algae in check and several loaches to help keep the bottom clean. The one advantage to having a goldfish tank is not having to worry about water temperature.

[COM]

I know what you mean about the pond cost. I looked into it not long ago. My insurance company would require a fence around the yard; my town only allows certain types of fences, and my neighborhood "association" has preferred styles and colors (1 style, 2 colors) and they are militant on enforcement. It would cost me roughly $12,000 before sales tax (8.75%, $1050) to fence my back yard (approximately 1/8 acre). If the pond were to have a liner, I would have to apply for a pool permit, get an inspection, pay a fee, pay for the town to have a crew plant a certain type of tree in a certain location in my back yard, etc. It isn't as easy as just picking up a shovel...

[akangelfood]

Wow. Just wow.

[Scuba Kid]

Originally Posted by COM

It isn't as easy as just picking up a shovel...

It is if you ignore permit laws and already have a fenced in yard.

Erm...not that I did that.

[Gopher]

Lucky you!

Our vaunted Public Security forces double as spies for the 'city-wants-a-cut' committee. As soon as you start doing something they show up for some reason... (or maybe it's the neighbors ratting me out...)

[TheOldSalt]

yeah.. eventually I think that all fishkeepers tend to have a run-in with City Hall at some point.
They just LOVE me...

[Scuba Kid]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

They just LOVE me...

lol, for some reason that doesn't surprise me.

[tburdock]

I'm not sure if anyone else answered you about the depth yet...

I'm in Nova Scotia and have a small (about 1000 gallon) pond. The deepest part is about 33", so just under 3feet. The remaining depth is about 2'. I would say that 4' would be plenty deep.

You would have to keep the ice open during the winter. I purchased a floating piece of foam to which a pump connects and keeps the water bubbling/moving so the surface never freezes solid. Works like a charm.

[Gopher]

Thanks for the insight Tburdock. Not sure where in Nova Scotia you are, but the temperature is somewhat affected by the proximity of the Atlantic I believe. The average daily low in the coldest month in Halifax is -9C. In Montreal it is -15C. (That's 16 vs 5 Farenheit for our US neighbors.) Hopefully that extra foot depth is enough. I suppose I could go deeper if really needed, but unless I decide to keep Koi I'd prefer 4' - shallow enough not to freak out the non-swimmers here too much ('cause you know they'll fall in!).

I checked with the insurance co and the town today. Surprisingly the insurance folks don't have any requirements, not even a fence! It's like I caught them by surprise ("hmm, we didn't think of that!"). The town say no fence needed for ponds 18" deep or less (although they recommend a 4' fence and I would put one just the same). 18" deep just isn't practical though - I coud only keep the number and size of fish that I would be able to overwinter indoors, or re-stock each year (not my style). Plus I would have to think racoons, birds and such could be a problem in 18" given than the top of a big fat fish may only be 12" down when resting off the bottom.

So swimming pool rules apply - 6' fence required. Mucho dinero. It'll be awhile...

[VincentM]

Nothing In the laws restrict from a surgface pond... think of a kiddy pool... you don't need to put it in the ground.... But you can build a little platform for it....

So if they won't let you dig up your yard, just lay the pond out ON the lawn and make a pretty platform you can put potted plants on.

[the plastic tub types, not the tarp type people make eco-ponds out of]

[gil_ong]

an overground "pond" will likely freeze over in winter.

[trashion]

An in-ground pond would too, they sell special heaters/air pumps to keep the ice from freezing completely.

[chattafish]

some friends of mine had a pond form, they set it on top of the ground in a bed of sand and used castle blocks around it to give that "built in look". With the addition of plants all around, it did look built in. They have used a surface DE-icier in winter.