Hi All-

[COM]

My name is Chris and I have recently rediscovered the joy of aquaria after a few years of absence.

I was really excited to stumble upon this forum after doing a google search to get some information about my possibly pregnant female Marigold Swordtail.

I have had several tanks in the past, the largest being a 55 G that is currently sitting dry in my parent's basement.

My current setup:
20 Gallon Extra High Tank
Eclipse filtration and lighting hood
Stealth 75W heater
10 Serpae Tetras
5 Guppies (3 Male, 2 Female)
3 Marigold Swords (1 Male, 2 Female)
2 Black Marble Angelfish
2 Spotted Corydoras

I set up my this tank using Marineland Labs Bio-Spira with fantastic results I have only lost 1 fish in the first month that I have had the tank set up and that was only from nipping (I can't figure out the culprit but I suspect the male sword).

Anyway, it's great to see that there is a webforum for fishfolk!

[trashion]

I'd guess the nippers were the Serpae tetras. The 20X tank is around the size of a 10 in terms of surface area, and I don't really think it's a good idea to house that many fish in there.

If you want to get old-school, by the inch-per-gallon rule (which can be used sometimes as a rough estimate, as long as you estimate by the ADULT size of the fish,) you've got:

10 serpaes: 2.5" each at adult size, so 25"
5 guppies: 2", so 10"
3 swords: 5", so 15"
2 angels: 6", so 12" (extra height needed because they get very "tall)
2 spotted cories: 2.5", so 5"
25+10+15+12+5=67 inches. That's a lot of fish!

Also, cories need schools, so you need at least 4 more of them for them to be happy and thrive.

We're not trying to bash your skills, just trying to get your fish into a good home Welcome to the Forum, I hope you get lots of help here and can help contribute!

[Ichthius]

Welcome to the forum, Chris

Julie gave you some great info, and I have to agree with her. Angelfish get very deep bodies and need at least a 30g, in my opinion. The serpaes are likely to get very aggressive with so many tank mates in such a small tank.

Congrats on the swordtail

[COM]

Julie:

Thanks for your advice. I tend to be ambitious and I am betting that the powerful filtration will mitigate the surface area issue. So far it is working and it has worked for me in the past. I don't really believe in the old surface area formula and I like a full tank with lots of activity. I do believe in frequent small same-temperature dechlorinated water changes and gravel cleaning. I will probably move the angels to a new 55 gallon or larger tank at some point when they get over 4 inches. That is a long way off.

I'm pretty sure that the Serpaes are not the nippers. These Serpaes are extremely docile - they don't even charge at the other fish like Serpaes I have had in the past. The male sword is likely the culprit. He doesn't play well with others.

I agree on the cory's. In my area I'm only comfortable with one of the live fish dealers and he only had two in stock at the time. I'm not yet comfortable with the idea of mail-order fish in the winter.

Overall the fish are thriving in the new tank.

[Blue Cray]

Welcome to FF! ....psst! get a bigger tank!

[COM]

Thanks! I would love a bigger tank but I can't accommodate one right now.

[Clerk]

Chris,

Welcome, but please understand in these greetings, most of our members like to address potential problems early, to nip several (potential) threads in the butt.

The main problem I see, is the angels. If your tank has the same footprint as a 10, then the angels will not grow properly. I know when fish are small its easy to believe they are slow growers, but depending on your water volume, tank size (surface area/footprint), and how often you perform water changes control the growth rate and final adult size of your fish.

In all honesty, angels growing to adult size is not waaaaay off. I saw that you were coming back to the hobby, but I sincerely hope you have seen the size of an adult angel, because you will usually only find them in non-corporate style stores.

People will often breed angels in a 20, but this is the 24x12 footprint. They are usually adult size, and rarely remain in the breeding tank for long (depends on breeder I s'pose.)

I would highly recommend pulling that tank out. of the basement soon, within 4-6 months. If you wait to long, spinal damage can occur, and its permanent.

[emc7]

Anyone else think 'docile serpae' is a contradiction in terms? Serpaes are the only fish I ever returned to the store, they were picking on my angels (nipping their tails), even though the angels were 3x the size of the serpaes.

[Obsidian]

Welcome to FF

[Clerk]

Originally Posted by emc7

Anyone else think 'docile serpae' is a contradiction in terms? Serpaes are the only fish I ever returned to the store, they were picking on my angels (nipping their tails), even though the angels were 3x the size of the serpaes.

Serpae's are the Tiger Barbs of the tetra world. If kept in adequate numbers, they will usually keep the nipping to themselves. I would just keep an eye on them for the time being, but when I had them, they tore everything apart. So I traded them in

[emc7]

adequate number

I guess 10 is adequate, or maybe there is Valium in the water there.

[COM]

The Serpaes are surprisingly docile. My dealer actually is the one that pointed that out to me. He says that he has been getting Serpaes like this for about a a year now. I don't know exactly where his supplier is, but they are coming from somewhere in Pennsylvania.

Remember, many of the fish sold today are the products of generation upon generation of breeding in captivity. Our hobby may be expediting evolution for some of these species. Also, the young fish available will have mildly different characteristics by region even within the US based on their genealogy and how breeding has been manipulated up the line. Think about dogs. Within a particular recognized breed, you can find lines that have dramatically different behavior patterns.

As for my nipping, I'm now beginning to suspect the smaller of my two angelfish. I'm not skilled at sexing, but from the behavior I think it is a male. They have grown noticeably in just a month and I can see that at least one will eventually need a larger tank.